Tom Barrister wrote:The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:
1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.
2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).
3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.
4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.
5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.
6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?
7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.
I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
The first three points are definitely valid....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Tom Barrister wrote:I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
There is quite a lot actually. I would guesstimate it at roughly 30% of search ideas, maybe even more. So to say, half of the things Rybka 3 and Ippo share comes from Fruit.
Just read BB's paper, it's all there.
Tom Barrister wrote:I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
There is quite a lot actually. I would guesstimate it at roughly 30% of search ideas, maybe even more. So to say, half of the things Rybka 3 and Ippo share comes from Fruit.
Just read BB's paper, it's all there.
So then Ippo did come from R3?? Is that what you are saying?
De Vos W wrote:Paranoia from one of the Rybka-Mafia members:
By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 19:37
It seems unlikely that any other engine will be able to compete head-to-head with the
cluster anytime soon, so Rybka will almost certainly be dominant one year from today. What may change is Rybka's position relative to
other commercially available engines. This will depend mostly on how much time Vas puts into releasable engines, as opposed to
working on the cluster, cloud Rybka, and consulting for elite GMs. Call me Archimedes...
By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:04 Edited 2010-12-05 21:07
It's very likely that a two tiered market will develop; Freely and
commercially available UCI engines stronger than the current R4, and private engines that are much stronger. Vas will probably stay
comfortably ahead of the other private engines for the foreseeable future. Vas can also stay ahead in the commercially available UCI
engines if he wants to, but only at the expense of helping all the other UCI engines develop more quickly. It should be noted that the
rapid recent gains in freely (and commercially) available engines is due to two sources; Tord's Stockfish effort, and the reverse
engineering of Rybka.
By Banned for Life Date 2010-12-05 21:29
I'm sure the developer of critter is both a top notch programmer and a skilled algorithm
designer, but it's harder to be a pioneer than to take advantage of previous work. It will be interesting to see the pace of development
when other engines reach the level of Rybka 4, assuming that Vas doesn't release another version anytime soon. Call me Archimedes...
My question is, why so many posers here stand behind these destroyers of computer-chess advancement?
Tom Barrister wrote:The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:
1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.
2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).
3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.
4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.
5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.
6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?
7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.
I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
The first three points are definitely valid....
Dr.D
Tom Barrister wrote:The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:
1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.
2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).
3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.
4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.
5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.
6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?
7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.
I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
The first three points are definitely valid....
Dr.D
Yep,that reminds me of a statement that Uri threw here in the forum considering that Vasik has found the huge improvement of Rybka by accident....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Tom Barrister wrote:The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:
1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.
2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).
3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.
4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.
5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.
6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?
7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.
I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
The first three points are definitely valid....
Dr.D
Yep,that reminds me of a statement that Uri threw here in the forum considering that Vasik has found the huge improvement of Rybka by accident....
Dr.D
so that little monkey was useful after all!
Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
Tom Barrister wrote:The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:
1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.
2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).
3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.
4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.
5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.
6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?
7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.
I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
The first three points are definitely valid....
Dr.D
Yep,that reminds me of a statement that Uri threw here in the forum considering that Vasik has found the huge improvement of Rybka by accident....
Dr.D
so that little monkey was useful after all!
Aha,and he was setting right close to Vasik so he managed to strip the idea from him at once
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Tom Barrister wrote:The bottom line, as near as I can figure, is that Rybka 1.0 was made from, or with the aid of, Fruit open-source, whereupon it jumped 600 ELO. At that point, or soon after, it was closed-source. Where Mr. Rajlich got his improvements from thereafter is open to debate. They can include none/some/all or all of the following:
1) He actually made some/most/all of the improvements himself.
2) He drew from the best ideas of other open-source code (violation of GPL?).
3) He asked others for help/ideas/advice.
4) He took ideas from discussions and/or technical papers that were free for all to use.
5) He reverse-engineered other closed-source/commercial engines and drew ideas from that.
6) He hired somebody, or a series of somebodies, to do the programming---and wouldn't it be hilarious if Fabien Letouzey has been the REAL (and silent) developer of Rybka all of these years?
7) He set 100,000 monkeys loose with keyboards and got lucky when one accidentally wrote a super program.
I'm curious about one thing. If the Ip* family was taken from Rybka 3, how much of that looks like Fruit? Or has this been covered already?
The first three points are definitely valid....
Dr.D
Yep,that reminds me of a statement that Uri threw here in the forum considering that Vasik has found the huge improvement of Rybka by accident....
Dr.D
so that little monkey was useful after all!
Aha,and he was setting right close to Vasik so he managed to strip the idea from him at once
Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.
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