I downloaded Houdini...

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hgm
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I downloaded Houdini...

Post by hgm »

because people claim it is the strongest engine in the World.

And it is always fun to see the strongest humiliated a bit by losing from a position that they initially evaluate as +7.5. :lol: :lol: :lol: For the other side it can sometimes win, though.

If you want to watch the fun: Games are broadcasted live here.
K I Hyams
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by K I Hyams »

hgm wrote:because people claim it is the strongest engine in the World.

And it is always fun to see the strongest humiliated a bit by losing from a position that they initially evaluate as +7.5. :lol: :lol: :lol: For the other side it can sometimes win, though.

If you want to watch the fun: Games are broadcasted live here.
Thank you for that, it was fun to watch. I agree with you about Houdini, absolute crap. It can't play mp3 music either.
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michiguel
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by michiguel »

K I Hyams wrote:
hgm wrote:because people claim it is the strongest engine in the World.

And it is always fun to see the strongest humiliated a bit by losing from a position that they initially evaluate as +7.5. :lol: :lol: :lol: For the other side it can sometimes win, though.

If you want to watch the fun: Games are broadcasted live here.
Thank you for that, it was fun to watch. I agree with you about Houdini, absolute crap. It can't play mp3 music either.
I knew perfectly well what it was going to be eve before clicking :-)

You are not getting HGM's point, which sticks a finger in a very interesting AI wound. There were some interesting threads about it before.

Miguel
K I Hyams
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by K I Hyams »

michiguel wrote:
K I Hyams wrote:
hgm wrote:because people claim it is the strongest engine in the World.

And it is always fun to see the strongest humiliated a bit by losing from a position that they initially evaluate as +7.5. :lol: :lol: :lol: For the other side it can sometimes win, though.

If you want to watch the fun: Games are broadcasted live here.
Thank you for that, it was fun to watch. I agree with you about Houdini, absolute crap. It can't play mp3 music either.
I knew perfectly well what it was going to be eve before clicking :-)

You are not getting HGM's point, which sticks a finger in a very interesting AI wound. There were some interesting threads about it before.

Miguel
Of course I am getting his point!! I was merely extending it by giving another example.
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michiguel
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by michiguel »

K I Hyams wrote:
michiguel wrote:
K I Hyams wrote:
hgm wrote:because people claim it is the strongest engine in the World.

And it is always fun to see the strongest humiliated a bit by losing from a position that they initially evaluate as +7.5. :lol: :lol: :lol: For the other side it can sometimes win, though.

If you want to watch the fun: Games are broadcasted live here.
Thank you for that, it was fun to watch. I agree with you about Houdini, absolute crap. It can't play mp3 music either.
I knew perfectly well what it was going to be eve before clicking :-)

You are not getting HGM's point, which sticks a finger in a very interesting AI wound. There were some interesting threads about it before.

Miguel
Of course I am getting his point!! I was merely extending it by giving another example.
Maybe I did not get your extension. Why did you mention something that has nothing to do with chess?

Miguel
K I Hyams
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Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:21 pm

Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by K I Hyams »

michiguel wrote:
K I Hyams wrote:
michiguel wrote:
K I Hyams wrote:
hgm wrote:because people claim it is the strongest engine in the World.

And it is always fun to see the strongest humiliated a bit by losing from a position that they initially evaluate as +7.5. :lol: :lol: :lol: For the other side it can sometimes win, though.

If you want to watch the fun: Games are broadcasted live here.
Thank you for that, it was fun to watch. I agree with you about Houdini, absolute crap. It can't play mp3 music either.
I knew perfectly well what it was going to be eve before clicking :-)

You are not getting HGM's point, which sticks a finger in a very interesting AI wound. There were some interesting threads about it before.

Miguel
Of course I am getting his point!! I was merely extending it by giving another example.
Maybe I did not get your extension. Why did you mention something that has nothing to do with chess?

Miguel
Because the exercise that he has set up completely confounded the evaluation of Houdini. The point was that if you set a machine onto something that it is not designed to do, it will not do it particularly well. Houdini is not designed to play mp3 files and that is the reason why it is not a particularly good mp3 player.
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hgm
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by hgm »

But Houdini is designed to play Chess, and this is a legal Chess position...

Of course you could argue that this position is not likely to occur in a real game. (But of course, apart from positions just a few moves from the opening, no single position really is.)

Btw, it cannot be really taken against Houdini that it loses with the Queen. As far as I could determine three Queens is really badly lost against 7 Knights. (Which, in itself is a remarkable observation turning the usual conceptions about piece values thoroughly upside down. And using a stong engine to verify that is what I would call legitimate use of the engine...) What it is to blame for is that it does not always win with the Knights. The failure of its evaluation to extrapolate well to an extreme position like this raises the legetimate question if that evaluation is optimal for somewhat less imbalanced, but more frequently occurring positions. Initially Houdini's eval seems to be off by more than 1000 centi-Pawn. That is quite a lot. Even if 100 cP of this would remain in a more mundane situation, it would probably lead to some major blunders.
K I Hyams
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by K I Hyams »

hgm wrote:But Houdini is designed to play Chess, and this is a legal Chess position...

Of course you could argue that this position is not likely to occur in a real game. (But of course, apart from positions just a few moves from the opening, no single position really is.)
You are deliberately missing the point.
tmokonen
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by tmokonen »

I wonder how Father Pablo would do as Black in this position against a strong engine....
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Houdini
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Re: I downloaded Houdini...

Post by Houdini »

hgm wrote:Btw, it cannot be really taken against Houdini that it loses with the Queen. As far as I could determine three Queens is really badly lost against 7 Knights. (Which, in itself is a remarkable observation turning the usual conceptions about piece values thoroughly upside down. And using a stong engine to verify that is what I would call legitimate use of the engine...)
Yes, it's quite interesting to see that the classical material values are only valid for a game with a "normal" number of pieces.

Robert