Who's Right?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw

User avatar
AdminX
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Acworth, GA

Who's Right?

Post by AdminX »

Is 96. ... a2, the drawing line?

[d]1r1n3R/2p5/2P3k1/8/5PPK/p3B3/8/8 b - - 0 96
Deep Rybka 4 played 96. ... Nxc6 here and went on to lose.

The position is from Deep Shredder 12 vs Deep Rybka 4 TCEC Division 1

Notice that Deep Shredder 12 thinks a2 is still lost.

Analysis by Deep Shredder 12 x64:

96...Nxc6 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Rxb8 Nxb8 99.Bc1 a2 100.Bb2 Nc6 101.g5 Ne7 102.Kg4 c5 103.Kf4 Nd5+ 104.Ke4 Ne7 105.Ba1 c4 106.Be5 Kf8 107.g6
+/= (0.29) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 5kN
+- (1.60) Depth: 22/42 00:00:21 25006kN, tb=1747

96...a2 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Bd4 Rb4 99.Rxd8 Rxd4 100.Ra8 Rd2 101.Kg5 Rg2 102.Ra7 Ke7 103.Rxc7+ Kd6 104.Ra7 Kxc6 105.Kh5 Kb6 106.Ra8 Kb7 107.Ra3 Kc6 108.g5 Kd5 109.Ra4 Rd2 110.f6
+- (1.55) Depth: 22/48 00:00:46 65603kN, tb=1758
+- (1.78) Depth: 24/52 00:01:36 161mN, tb=2056

96...Nxc6 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Rxb8 Nxb8 99.Bc1 a2 100.Bb2 Nc6 101.g5 Ne7 102.Kg4 c5 103.Kf4 Nd5+ 104.Ke4 Ne7 105.Ba1 Kg8 106.g6 Kf8 107.Be5 Ke8 108.Bb2 Kf8
+- (1.68) Depth: 24/52 00:01:58 189mN, tb=3606
+- (2.12) Depth: 27/53 00:08:47 785mN, tb=49157


Analysis by Houdini 1.5a x64:

96...a2 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Bd4 Nxc6 99.Rh7+ Ke8 100.Bf6 Rb7 101.Kg5 Rb4 102.Rxc7 Nd4 103.Bxd4 Rxd4
=/+ (-0.54) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 3kN
= (-0.11) Depth: 9/26 00:00:00 33kN

96...Nxc6 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Rxb8 Nxb8 99.g5 Nc6 100.g6+ Kg8 101.Bc1 a2 102.Bb2 Na5 103.Kg5 Nb3 104.Kf4 c5 105.Ke4 a1Q 106.Bxa1 Nxa1
= (-0.17 ++) Depth: 9/28 00:00:00 51kN
= (0.01) Depth: 11/32 00:00:04 160kN

96...a2 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Bd4 Rb4 99.Rxd8 Rxd4 100.Ra8 Rd2 101.Kg5 Rf2 102.Ra7 Re2 103.Kf4 Rf2+ 104.Ke3 Rc2 105.Rxc7+ Kf6 106.Ra7 Kg5 107.Kf3 Rxc6 108.Rxa2 Rc4 109.Rg2 Rf4+ 110.Ke3 Rb4 111.Rg1 Kf6 112.Ke2 Rf4 113.Rg2 Rd4 114.Kf3
= (0.00) Depth: 11/32 00:00:05 188kN
+/- (0.73) Depth: 18/59 00:00:45 35429kN, tb=93

96...Nxc6 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Rxb8 Nxb8 99.g5 Nc6 100.Bc1 Nd4 101.Kg4 Nb5 102.g6+ Kf6 103.Kh5 Nd6 104.Bxa3 Nxf5 105.Bf8 c6 106.Bc5 Kg7 107.Kg5 Ng3 108.Bd4+ Kg8 109.Be5 Ne2 110.Bd6 Nc3 111.Kf5 c5 112.Bxc5 Nd5 113.Bd4 Ne7+ 114.Kg5 Nxg6
+/= (0.49) Depth: 18/59 00:00:46 37530kN, tb=94

96...Kf6 97.g5+ Ke6 98.g6 Kf6 99.f5 Rb4+ 100.Kh5 a2 101.Rf8+ Ke5 102.Bg5 Ke4 103.Re8+ Kxf5 104.Rf8+ Ke4 105.Rf4+ Kd5 106.g7 Rxf4 107.g8Q+ Ne6 108.Qa8 Rf2 109.Qa5+ Ke4 110.Qe1+ Kd5 111.Bh4 Rg2 112.Qf1 Rh2 113.Kg4 Nd4 114.Bg3 Re2 115.Qd1 Re6 116.Bf2 Re4+ 117.Kg5
+/= (0.33) Depth: 18/59 00:00:51 56352kN, tb=94
+/= (0.52) Depth: 19/64 00:00:59 89865kN, tb=109

96...Nxc6 97.f5+
+/= (0.36) Depth: 19/64 00:00:59 90752kN, tb=110
+/- (0.76 --) Depth: 21/64 00:01:42 143mN, tb=173

96...Kf7 97.Rh7+ Ke6 98.Rxc7 Ra8 99.f5+ Kd5 100.Rd7+ Kxc6 101.Rd1 a2 102.Bd4 Nf7 103.Ba1 Ra5 104.f6 Kc7 105.Kg3 Kc6 106.Rd2 Ra4 107.Kh4 Ra5 108.Rg2 Nh8 109.Rc2+ Kd7 110.g5 Kd6 111.Kg4 Ng6 112.Re2 Ra4+ 113.Kf3 Ra5 114.Bc3 Rf5+ 115.Ke4 Rxg5
+/= (0.49 ++) Depth: 21/64 00:01:44 148mN, tb=174
+/= (0.40) Depth: 23/64 00:02:32 299mN, tb=1234

96...a2 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Bd4 Rb4 99.Rxd8 Rxd4 100.Ra8 Rd2 101.Kg5 Rf2 102.Ra7 Re2 103.Ra5 Rc2 104.Ra6 Rf2 105.Ra3 Rc2 106.Ra5 Rf2 107.Ra8 Rd2 108.Kf4 Rd4+ 109.Kf3 Rd3+ 110.Ke4 Rd2 111.g5 Rg2 112.Ra7 Rxg5 113.Ke5 Rg1 114.Rxa2 Re1+ 115.Kf4 Rf1+ 116.Ke4 Re1+ 117.Kd3 Kf6 118.Ra7 Re7 119.Ra8 Kxf5 120.Rf8+ Ke6
= (0.22) Depth: 23/64 00:02:34 306mN, tb=1254
= (0.22) Depth: 27/73 00:04:56 508mN, tb=3072


Analysis by Deep Rybka 4 x64:

96...Nxc6 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Rxb8 Nxb8 99.g5 a2 100.Bd4 c5 101.g6+ Kg8 102.Ba1 Nc6 103.f6 Kf8 104.Kg5 Nd4 105.Bc3 Nf3+ 106.Kf4
-/+ (-0.87 ++) Depth: 6 00:00:00 1kN
= (0.10) Depth: 8 00:00:00 15kN

96...a2 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Bd4 Rb4 99.Rh7+ Ke8 100.Rh8+ Kf7 101.Rh7+ Ke8 102.Rh8+ Kf7 103.Rh7+ Ke8 104.Rh8+ Kf7 105.Rh7+ Ke8 106.Rh8+ Kf7 107.Rh7+ Ke8 108.Rh8+ Kf7 109.Rh7+ Ke8 110.Rh8+ Kf7 111.Rh7+ Ke8
= (0.00) Depth: 8 00:00:00 20kN
= (0.00) Depth: 11 00:00:00 46kN

96...Nxc6 97.f5+ Kf7 98.Rxb8[] Nxb8 99.g5 Nc6 100.Bc1[] a2 101.Bb2[] Ne7 102.Kg4[] c6 103.Kf4[] Kf8 104.Ba1[] Nd5+ 105.Ke5[] Kf7 106.g6+ Ke7 107.Ke4[] Nf6+ 108.Kd4[] Nd5 109.Ke4 Nf6+ 110.Kd4[] Nd5 111.Ke4 Nf6+
= (0.00) Depth: 12 00:00:00 120kN, tb=2
+- (2.16) Depth: 19 00:07:00 25181kN, tb=7733

96...Kf7 97.f5 a2 98.Bd4 Rb4 99.Rxd8 Rxd4 100.Ra8 Rd2 101.Kg5 Rg2 102.Ra7 Re2
+/- (1.38) Depth: 19 00:07:46 27806kN, tb=8090
+- (1.89 ++) Depth: 21 00:09:08 32682kN, tb=9641
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
Robert Flesher
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Who's Right?

Post by Robert Flesher »

Hello Ted, my Houdini feels the same. Now we must find the truth.


CPU0: GenuineIntel Intel64 Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4 3331 MHz
CPU1: GenuineIntel Intel64 Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4 3331 MHz
CPU2: GenuineIntel Intel64 Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4 3331 MHz
CPU3: GenuineIntel Intel64 Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4 3331 MHz
GUI: Tablebases with 0 pieces found! [Cache: 1 MB + internal 0.00 MB]
GUI: Shredderbases with 0 pieces found (0 MB)
POPCNT available
128 MB Hash
1024 MB Hash
GaviotaTb 5 men EGTB available - 64 MB cache
Engine: Houdini 1.5 x64 [GTB] (1024 MB)
by Robert Houdart
17/37 0:01 +0.13 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 e6 4.e3 Bd6 5.Nc3 Bxf4 6.exf4 O-O 7.Be2 Nc6 8.O-O Bd7 9.Ne5 Qe7 10.Qd2 Nxe5 11.fxe5 (10.692.598) 7440
18/37 0:01 +0.13 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 e6 4.e3 Bd6 5.Nc3 Bxf4 6.exf4 O-O 7.Be2 Nc6 8.O-O Bd7 9.Ne5 Qe7 10.Qd2 Nxe5 11.fxe5 (15.017.119) 7542
18/37 0:02 +0.13 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 e6 4.e3 Bd6 5.Nc3 Bxf4 6.exf4 O-O 7.Be2 Nc6 8.O-O Bd7 9.Ne5 Qe7 10.Qd2 Nxe5 11.fxe5 (17.952.160) 7613
best move: d2-d4 time: 0:02.453 min n/s: 7.613.000 CPU 99.0% n/s(1CPU): 7.689.898 nodes: 17.952.160
19/40 0:01 +0.14 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 Bf5 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Bd6 6.Bxd6 Qxd6 7.Nc3 Nc6 8.O-O Bxd3 9.cxd3 O-O 10.Nb5 Qe7 11.Qc2 (15.253.170) 7734
best move: d2-d4 time: 0:01.968 min n/s: 7.734.000 CPU 97.2% n/s(1CPU): 7.956.790 nodes: 15.253.170
17/50 0:01 +0.22 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Rxb8 Nxb8 4.Bd4 Nc6 5.Ba1 Ne7 6.Kg3 a2 7.Kf4 Nd5+ 8.Ke4 Nf6+ 9.Kf3 Nd7 10.g5 Nc5 11.g6+ Kg8 12.f6 Nb3 13.Bc3 a1Q 14.f7+ Kf8 (10.314.154) 8763 TB:3
18/51 0:01 +0.18++ 1...Nxc6 (15.775.317) 8978 TB:6
18/51 0:01 +0.27-- 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ (18.046.894) 9146 TB:11
18/51 0:02 +0.37-- 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ (21.034.617) 9189 TB:11
18/51 0:02 +0.29 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.g5 Rf2 7.Kg4 Rg2+ 8.Kf4 Rf2+ 9.Ke4 Rg2 10.Ra7 Rxg5 11.Rxc7+ Kf6 12.Ra7 Rg2 13.c7 Rc2 14.Ra6+ Kf7 (22.185.418) 9201 TB:11
19/51 0:02 +0.33-- 1...a2 2.f5+ (24.543.071) 9254 TB:11
19/58 0:03 +0.43-- 1...a2 2.f5+ (31.514.409) 9393 TB:11
19/58 0:05 +0.73-- 1...a2 2.f5+ (48.669.918) 9556 TB:31
19/58 0:06 +0.66 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Ke7 9.g5 Rf2+ 10.Ke4 Rg2 11.Rxc7+ Kd6 12.Rd7+ Kxc6 13.Ra7 Rxg5 14.Rxa2 Kd6 (64.015.524) 9703 TB:35
20/58 0:07 +0.66 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Ke7 9.g5 Rf2+ 10.Ke4 Rg2 11.Rxc7+ Kd6 12.Rd7+ Kxc6 13.Ra7 Rxg5 14.Rxa2 Kd6 (70.059.337) 9756 TB:40
21/58 0:07 +0.72-- 1...a2 2.Bd4 (76.079.369) 9758 TB:48
21/58 0:09 +0.86-- 1...a2 2.Bd4 (94.338.963) 9696 TB:91
21/66 0:13 +0.97 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Ke7 9.Rxc7+ Kd6 10.Ra7 Kxc6 11.g5 Kd5 12.g6 Rg2 13.Kf3 Rg5 14.Ra5+ Kd6 (130.756.448) 9946 TB:204
22/66 0:16 +0.99 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Ke7 9.Rxc7+ Kd6 10.Ra7 Kxc6 11.g5 Rg2 12.g6 Kd6 13.Ke4 Rg4+ 14.Kf3 Rg5 (163.564.197) 10021 TB:402
23/66 0:20 +0.92++ 1...a2 (209.962.056) 10056 TB:907
23/66 0:21 +0.78++ 1...a2 (213.867.055) 10067 TB:938
23/66 0:21 +0.82 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra6 Ke7 8.Ra7 Kd6 9.Kf6 Rxg4 10.Rxa2 Kxc6 11.Rd2 Rg3 12.Kf7 Kb5 13.Rb2+ Kc4 14.Rc2+ Kd5 (219.417.685) 10031 TB:993
24/66 0:23 +0.84 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra6 Ke7 8.Ra7 Kd6 9.Kf6 Rxg4 10.Rxa2 Kxc6 11.Rd2 Rg1 12.Kf7 Kb5 13.Rb2+ Kc4 14.Rc2+ Kd5 (234.838.649) 9931 TB:1.081
25/66 0:30 +0.82 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Ra3 Rc2 9.Ra4 Rb2 10.Ra5 Rg2 11.Ra6 Rd2 12.Ra4 Rc2 13.Ra7 Re2 14.Ra3 (288.706.421) 9583 TB:1.497
26/66 0:37 +0.82 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra4 Rd2 8.Ra5 Rg2 9.Ra3 Rc2 10.Ra4 Rb2 11.Ra6 Rg2 12.Ra3 Rc2 (352.376.246) 9389 TB:2.052
27/66 0:48 +0.75++ 1...a2 (449.514.875) 9217 TB:2.687
27/66 0:53 +0.61++ 1...a2 (497.726.846) 9268 TB:2.897
27/66 0:56 +0.82 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Ra6 Rg2 9.Ra5 Rh2 10.Ra3 Rc2 11.Ra6 Rg2 12.Ra5 (516.622.729) 9204 TB:3.470
27/72 2:47 +0.76 1...Kf7 2.Rh7+ Ke6 3.Rxc7 Ra8 4.f5+ Kd5 5.Rd7+ Kxc6 6.Rd1 Nf7 7.Bd4 Rd8 8.Rc1+ Kd5 9.Ba1 Rg8 10.Rd1+ Ke4 11.Kg3 Nh6 12.Rd4+ Ke3 13.Rf4 a2 14.f6 Ra8 (1.761.702.888) 10510 TB:20.205
28/72 4:43 +0.83-- 1...Kf7 2.Rh7+ (3.095.030.363) 10921 TB:47.531
28/72 4:50 +0.69++ 1...a2 (3.173.955.728) 10931 TB:48.115
28/72 4:57 +0.56++ 1...a2 (3.250.062.595) 10942 TB:48.598
28/72 5:16 +0.35 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Ra6 Rg2 9.Ra5 Rh2 10.Ra4 Rg2 11.Ra8 Rd2 12.Kf4 Rd4+ 13.Kf3 Rd3+ 14.Ke4 Rd2 (3.472.526.925) 10972 TB:50.948
28/72 5:18 +0.35 1...a2 2.Bd4 Kf7 3.f5 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rg2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Ra6 Rg2 9.Ra5 Rh2 10.Ra4 Rg2 11.Ra8 Rd2 12.Kf4 Rd4+ 13.Kf3 Rd3+ 14.Ke4 Rd2 (3.493.988.045) 10971 TB:51.070
best move: a3-a2 time: 5:18.563 min n/s: 10.971.000 CPU 99.8% n/s(1CPU): 10.992.985 nodes: 3.493.988.045 TB: 51.070
1024 MB Hash
17/53 0:01 +0.58 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Nxc6 4.Rxb8 Nxb8 5.g5 Nc6 6.g6+ Kf8 7.Bb2 Nb4 8.Kg5 Nd3 9.Ba1 Ne1 10.f6 Nf3+ 11.Kf4 Nh4 12.g7+ Kf7 13.Ke4 Ng6 14.Kd5 Nf4+ (16.653.863) 9201 TB:182
17/53 0:01 +0.37 1...Nxc6 2.Rxb8 Nxb8 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.g5 Ne7 7.Kg4 c5 8.Kf4 Nd5+ 9.Ke4 Ne7 10.Bc3 Ng8 11.g6+ Ke7 12.Bb2 Nf6+ 13.Ke5 Ng4+ 14.Kd5 Ne3+ (17.777.586) 9225 TB:182
18/56 0:02 +0.37 1...Nxc6 2.Rxb8 Nxb8 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.g5 Ne7 7.Kg4 c6 8.Kf4 Nd5+ 9.Ke4 Ne7 10.Ke5 Nd5 11.g6+ Ke7 12.Kd4 Kf6 13.Ke4+ Ke7 14.Bd4 Nf6+ (20.274.204) 9257 TB:185
19/56 0:02 +0.37 1...Nxc6 2.Rxb8 Nxb8 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.g5 Ne7 7.Kg4 c6 8.Kf4 Nd5+ 9.Ke4 Ne7 10.Ke5 Nd5 11.g6+ Ke7 12.Kd4 Kf6 13.Ke4+ Ke7 14.Bd4 Nf6+ (22.594.896) 9275 TB:193
20/56 0:02 +0.42-- 1...Nxc6 2.Rxb8 (26.818.283) 9373 TB:202
20/56 0:03 +0.44 1...Nxc6 2.Rxb8 Nxb8 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.g5 Ne7 7.Kg4 c6 8.Kf4 Nd5+ 9.Ke4 Ne7 10.Bc3 Nd5 11.g6+ Kf8 12.Bb2 Ke7 13.Ba1 Nf6+ 14.Kd4 Kf8 (34.875.191) 9539 TB:220
20/60 0:05 +0.44 1...Nxc6 2.Rxb8 Nxb8 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Bc1 a2 5.Bb2 Nc6 6.g5 Ne7 7.Kg4 c6 8.Kf4 Nd5+ 9.Ke4 Ne7 10.Bc3 Nd5 11.g6+ Kf8 12.Bb2 Ke7 13.Ba1 Nf6+ 14.Kd4 Kf8 (47.660.937) 9503 TB:223
best move: Nd8xc6 time: 0:05.016 min n/s: 9.503.000 CPU 99.5% n/s(1CPU): 9.550.753 nodes: 47.660.937 TB: 223
Hash cleared
19/48 0:01 +0.36-- 1...a2 2.f5+ (11.920.953) 8739 TB:83
19/64 0:04 +1.07 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Rf2+ 9.Ke3 Rc2 10.g5 Rxc6 11.Rxa2 Rc5 12.Kf4 Rc4+ 13.Ke5 Rc5+ 14.Ke4 Rc4+ (45.200.860) 10084 TB:663
19/64 0:04 +0.45 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Rxb8 Nxb8 4.g5 Nc6 5.Bc1 Nd4 6.Kg4 Nb5 7.g6+ Kf6 8.Bg5+ Kg7 9.Bf4 a2 10.Be5+ Kh6 11.Ba1 Na3 12.g7 Kh7 13.f6 Kg8 14.Kf5 Nc4 (49.957.836) 10133 TB:691
20/64 0:06 +0.52-- 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ (67.001.253) 10174 TB:728
20/64 0:08 +0.66-- 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ (83.314.732) 10161 TB:779
20/64 0:11 +0.96-- 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ (115.325.347) 10277 TB:866
20/70 0:15 +1.28 1...Nxc6 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Rxb8 Nxb8 4.g5 Nc6 5.Bc1 a2 6.Bb2 Ne7 7.Kg4 c5 8.Kf4 Nd5+ 9.Ke4 Nb6 10.g6+ Ke7 11.Ba1 c4 12.f6+ Ke6 13.g7 Kf7 14.Kd4 Kg8 (158.955.443) 10439 TB:1.145
20/70 0:15 +1.07 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Rf2+ 9.Ke3 Rc2 10.g5 Rxc6 11.Rxa2 Rc5 12.Kf4 Rc4+ 13.Ke5 Rc5+ 14.Ke4 Rc4+ (161.168.687) 10436 TB:1.162
21/70 0:17 +1.07 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Rf2+ 9.Ke3 Rc2 10.g5 Rxc6 11.Rxa2 Rc5 12.Kf4 Rc4+ 13.Ke5 Rc5+ 14.Ke4 Rc4+ (178.213.923) 10449 TB:1.230
22/70 0:18 +1.07 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Rf2+ 9.Ke3 Rc2 10.g5 Rxc6 11.Rxa2 Rc5 12.Kf4 Rc4+ 13.Ke5 Rc5+ 14.Ke4 Rc4+ (194.804.752) 10464 TB:1.636
23/70 0:21 +1.07 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Rf2+ 9.Ke3 Rc2 10.g5 Rxc6 11.Rxa2 Rc5 12.Kf4 Rc4+ 13.Ke5 Rc5+ 14.Ke4 Rc4+ (224.400.859) 10513 TB:2.329
23/70 0:24 +1.00++ 1...Kf7 (256.686.652) 10610 TB:2.955
23/70 0:24 +0.86++ 1...Kf7 (260.377.542) 10618 TB:2.973
23/70 0:26 +0.55++ 1...Kf7 (279.322.295) 10655 TB:3.135
23/70 0:30 +0.32 1...Kf7 2.f5 a2 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Kf6 9.g5+ Kf7 10.Ra4 Rg2 11.Ra3 Rf2+ 12.Ke4 Rg2 13.Ra7 Rxg5 14.Rxa2 Rg4+ (324.569.929) 10749 TB:3.654
24/70 0:41 +0.37-- 1...Kf7 2.f5 (454.575.534) 10919 TB:5.721
24/70 0:44 +0.27++ 1...a2 (482.533.655) 10908 TB:6.546
24/70 0:45 +0.30 1...a2 2.f5+ Kf7 3.Bd4 Rb4 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Kf6 9.g5+ Kf7 10.Ra6 Rf2+ 11.Kg4 Rg2+ 12.Kh4 Rf2 13.Ra5 Rb2 14.Ra7 Re2 (493.959.614) 10909 TB:7.137
25/70 0:49 +0.30 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.Rxd8 Rxd4 4.f5+ Kf6 5.Rf8+ Kg7 6.Ra8 Rd2 7.Kg5 Kf7 8.Kf4 Rd4+ 9.Kf3 Rd3+ 10.Ke4 Rd2 11.Kf4 Rd4+ (537.199.735) 10918 TB:8.252
26/70 0:51 +0.25++ 1...a2 (567.870.466) 10922 TB:8.483
26/70 0:52 +0.28 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.Rxd8 Rxd4 4.f5+ Kf6 5.Rf8+ Kg7 6.Ra8 Rd2 7.Kg5 Kf7 8.Kf4 Rd4+ 9.Kf3 Rd3+ 10.Ke4 Rd2 11.Ke3 Rc2 12.Kf4 Kf6 13.g5+ Kf7 14.Ke4 Rg2 (574.241.487) 10927 TB:8.631
27/70 1:07 +0.26 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.Rxd8 Rxd4 4.f5+ Kf6 5.Rf8+ Kg7 6.Ra8 Rd2 7.Kg5 Kf7 8.Kf4 Rd4+ 9.Kf3 Rd3+ 10.Ke4 Rd2 11.Ke3 Rc2 12.Kf4 Kf6 13.g5+ Kf7 14.Kg3 Rc5 (745.728.822) 10997 TB:12.495
28/70 1:17 +0.26 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.Rxd8 Rxd4 4.f5+ Kf7 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Kf6 9.g5+ Kf7 10.Ra6 Rf2+ 11.Kg4 Rg2+ 12.Kh4 Rf2 13.Ra5 Rg2 14.Ra7 Re2 (852.391.819) 11026 TB:13.833
29/70 1:31 +0.26 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.Rxd8 Rxd4 4.f5+ Kf7 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Kf6 9.g5+ Kf7 10.Ra6 Rf2+ 11.Kg4 Rg2+ 12.Kh4 Rf2 13.Ra5 Rf4+ 14.Kh5 Rf2 (1.012.095.965) 11077 TB:15.833
30/70 1:58 +0.26 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.Rxd8 Rxd4 4.f5+ Kf7 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.Kf4 Kf6 9.g5+ Kf7 10.Ra6 Rf2+ 11.Kg4 Rg2+ 12.Kh4 Rf2 13.Ra5 Rf4+ 14.Kh5 Rf2 (1.318.308.662) 11115 TB:21.377
31/70 3:58 +0.26 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.f6 Re5+ 9.Kh6 Re4 10.Rxc7+ Ke6 11.Ra7 Rxg4 12.f7 a1R 13.f8N+ Kd6 14.Rxa1 Kxc6 (2.548.779.289) 10708 TB:58.237
32/72 5:58 +0.26 1...a2 2.Bd4 Rb4 3.f5+ Kf7 4.Rxd8 Rxd4 5.Ra8 Rd2 6.Kg5 Rf2 7.Ra7 Re2 8.f6 Re5+ 9.Kh6 Re4 10.Rxc7+ Ke6 11.Ra7 Rxg4 12.f7 a1R 13.f8N+ Kd6 14.Rxa1 Kxc6 (3.955.211.188) 11027 TB:88.781
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Who's Right?

Post by zullil »

AdminX wrote:Is 96. ... a2, the drawing line?

[d]1r1n3R/2p5/2P3k1/8/5PPK/p3B3/8/8 b - - 0 96
Here's what Stockfish-2.0.1 (8 threads) has at depth 39:

Code: Select all

info depth 39 seldepth 65 multipv 1 score cp 0 time 1205157 nodes 10499949874 nps 8712516 pv a3a2 e3d4 b8b4 d4c3 b4b3 h8g8 g6f7 g8d8 b3c3 d8a8 c3c2 h4g5 c2c5 f4f5 c5c2 a8a7 c2e2 f5f6 e2e5 g5h6 f7f6 a7a2 e5c5 a2f2 f6e7 f2e2 e7f6 e2g2 c5c6 g4g5 f6f5 g5g6 c6c3 h6h7 c7c5 g6g7 c3h3 h7g8 h3a3 g2h2 a3g3 g8f8 f5e5 h2h5 e5d4 h5h4 d4d5 h4h3 g3g7 f8g7 d5d4 h3h4 d4d3 g7f6 c5c4 f6e5 c4c3 h4h3 d3c4 e5e4 c3c2 h3h7 c4c3 h7c7 c3d2 
And depth 41:

Code: Select all

info depth 41 seldepth 65 multipv 1 score cp 0 time 1530406 nodes 13488323765 nps 8813559 pv a3a2 e3d4 b8b4 d4c3 b4b3 h8g8 g6f7 g8d8 b3c3 d8a8 c3c2 h4g5 c2c5 f4f5 c5c2 a8a7 c2e2 f5f6 e2e5 g5h6 f7f6 a7a2 e5c5 a2f2 f6e7 f2e2 e7f6 e2g2 c5c6 g4g5 f6f5 g5g6 c6c3 h6h7 c7c5 g6g7 c3h3 h7g8 h3a3 g2h2 a3g3 g8f8 f5e5 h2h5 e5d4 h5h4 d4d5 h4h3 g3g7 f8g7 d5d4 h3h4 d4d5 g7f6 c5c4 f6g5 c4c3 h4h1 d5d4 g5f4 c3c2 f4g5 d4e3 h1a1 e3d2 
And depth 42:

Code: Select all

info depth 42 seldepth 69 multipv 1 score cp 0 time 1894642 nodes 16884147354 nps 8911523 pv a3a2 e3d4 b8b4 d4c3 b4b3 h8g8 g6f7 g8d8 b3c3 d8a8 c3c2 h4g5 c2c5 f4f5 c5c2 a8a7 c2e2 f5f6 e2e5 g5h6 f7f6 a7a2 e5c5 a2f2 f6e7 f2e2 e7f6 e2g2 c5c6 g4g5 f6f5 g5g6 c6c3 h6h7 c7c5 g6g7 c3h3 h7g8 h3a3 g2h2 a3g3 g8f8 f5e5 h2h5 e5d4 h5h4 d4d5 h4h3 g3g7 f8g7 d5d4 h3h4 d4d5 g7f6 c5c4 f6g5 c4c3 h4h1 d5d4 g5f4 c3c2 f4g5 d4e3 h1a1 e3d2 g5f4 c2c1q a1c1 d2c1 
Robert Flesher
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Who's Right?

Post by Robert Flesher »

This would appear to be the critical line.


1... a2 2. Bd4 Rb4 3. f5+ Kf7 4. Rxd8 Rxd4 5. Ra8 Rd2

Can black draw ? The connected passers always look scary, but .....

It Looks like black can draw. Has anyone found a win for white ?

[d]R7/2p2k2/2P5/5P2/6PK/8/p2r4/8 w - -
Last edited by Robert Flesher on Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
AdminX
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Acworth, GA

Re: Who's Right?

Post by AdminX »

Robert Flesher wrote:This would appear to be the critical line.


1... a2 2. Bd4 Rb4 3. f5+ Kf7 4. Rxd8 Rxd4 5. Ra8 Rd2

Can black draw ? The connected passers always look scary, but .....

[d]R7/2p2k2/2P5/5P2/6PK/8/p2r4/8 w - -
I think white is winning due to the weak c7 pawn.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Who's Right?

Post by zullil »

And depth 43:

Code: Select all

info depth 43 seldepth 69 multipv 1 score cp 0 time 2416887 nodes 21855034999 nps 9042638 pv a3a2 e3d4 b8b4 d4c3 b4b3 h8g8 g6f7 g8d8 b3c3 d8a8 c3c2 h4g5 c2c5 f4f5 c5c2 a8a7 c2e2 f5f6 e2e5 g5h6 f7f6 a7a2 e5c5 a2f2 f6e7 f2e2 e7f6 e2g2 c5c6 g4g5 f6f5 g5g6 c6c3 h6h7 c7c5 g6g7 c3h3 h7g8 h3a3 g2h2 a3g3 g8f8 f5e5 h2h5 e5d4 h5h4 d4d5 h4h3 g3g7 f8g7 d5d4 h3h4 d4d5 g7f6 c5c4 f6g5 c4c3 h4h1 d5d4 g5f4 c3c2 f4g5 d4e3 h1a1 e3d2 g5f4 c2c1q a1c1 d2c1 
Maybe I should play through this ...
Robert Flesher
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Who's Right?

Post by Robert Flesher »

AdminX wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote:This would appear to be the critical line.


1... a2 2. Bd4 Rb4 3. f5+ Kf7 4. Rxd8 Rxd4 5. Ra8 Rd2

Can black draw ? The connected passers always look scary, but .....

[d]R7/2p2k2/2P5/5P2/6PK/8/p2r4/8 w - -
I think white is winning due to the weak c7 pawn.

I cannot see how the c pawn can be exploited, the a2 passer is way to strong.
User avatar
AdminX
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Acworth, GA

Re: Who's Right?

Post by AdminX »

Robert Flesher wrote:
AdminX wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote:This would appear to be the critical line.


1... a2 2. Bd4 Rb4 3. f5+ Kf7 4. Rxd8 Rxd4 5. Ra8 Rd2

Can black draw ? The connected passers always look scary, but .....

[d]R7/2p2k2/2P5/5P2/6PK/8/p2r4/8 w - -
I think white is winning due to the weak c7 pawn.

I cannot see how the c pawn can be exploited, the a2 passer is way to strong.
I think after white plays kg5 followed by Ra7 white has some chances due to c7 being weak. Maybe I am missing something however.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Who's Right?

Post by zullil »

AdminX wrote: I think after white plays kg5 followed by Ra7 white has some chances due to c7 being weak. Maybe I am missing something however.
Black responds to Ra7 with Re2. Then the pawn can't be taken, even with check.
User avatar
AdminX
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: Acworth, GA

Re: Who's Right?

Post by AdminX »

zullil wrote:
AdminX wrote: I think after white plays kg5 followed by Ra7 white has some chances due to c7 being weak. Maybe I am missing something however.
Black responds to Ra7 with Re2. Then the pawn can't be taken, even with check.
Why not? I will have to check this when I have time. However if white's king is on g5 as I stated above taking on c7 with check looks fine I think. I could be wrong. I will look at it in detail when I have more time.

NEVER MIND I SEE IT NOW!!! :lol: You are correct!
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers