Fabien's open letter to the community

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw

User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 4556
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Ovyron »

bob wrote:Please don't continue to quote "crap". With all the authors of chess programs around, only Vas has seen it necessary to "normalize" his node counts?
That's the claim, yes. I'm not saying that it is the case, or that I believe it, I only say that's the reason they give for normalizing the node counts (so that the number equates strength).
User avatar
Houdini
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Houdini »

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:...

Personally, I'm waiting for this to play out further before making any big decisions.

Once Fabien says that he has examined all the facts for himself and states that Rybka is undeniably nothing more than a Fruit ripoff and which versions this applies to (statements that he would be prepared to defend in a legal sense), I will be perfectly happy to personally stop testing those versions ...
"those versions" only ?

Matthias.
I'm quite sure Graham will do the honorable thing and immediately stop testing Rybka 1.0 and 2.0.
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Steve B »

JuLieN wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Damn,this thread is taking over mine related to the match against Excalibur Ivan II in terms of popularity :lol:

:wink:
If I'm not mistaken, the absolute record in terms of posts is the thread entitled "BB+ on the matter", with 253 posts, and the most poplar one in term of view count is the one entitled "On Robots", with 69043 views. ;)

Records are made to be broken.
On Robots
i wonder who started that thread?

another huge thread was
Collector's Corner..2007 Annual Physicals ....Regards
Steve
User avatar
Ovyron
Posts: 4556
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Ovyron »

slobo wrote:The newest one is that Rybka´s codes suddenly became lost ( or deleted), and cannot be examined by experts anymore.
What is your definition of "new"?

2009-04-14 00:34

"Actually, I seriously don't have the Rybka 3 source code.

Vas"

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... pid=151823
mwyoung
Posts: 2727
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:00 pm

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by mwyoung »

IWB wrote:Hi Graham
Graham Banks wrote:
Once Fabien says that he has examined all the facts for himself and states that Rybka is undeniably nothing more than a Fruit ripoff and which versions this applies to (statements that he would be prepared to defend in a legal sense), I will be perfectly happy to personally stop testing those versions and to advocate for their removal from the CCRL rating lists ....
Ask yourself if you ever got that much certanty from VR about the Littos!?

Actually I remember a posting where VR said that he lost the code and cant prove anything in front of a court and I am pretty sure you remember that as well ...

I think the only thing a tester can stick on is the good advice you once gave me: "There has to be a real name", and I like to add ", thats all!"

Bye Ingo
"(statements that he would be prepared to defend in a legal sense)"

Now that we know Mr. Banks standard of evidence for what programs can and can not be on his Rating List. That have been accused of being clones, or programs with accusation of stole code or ideas.

I am sure Mr. Banks will be posting the Houdini 1.5 results on his rating list today. Since Houdini does not meet this standard of evidence for exclusion on Mr. Banks CCRL rating list.
User avatar
Matthias Gemuh
Posts: 3245
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Matthias Gemuh »

Houdini wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:...

Personally, I'm waiting for this to play out further before making any big decisions.

Once Fabien says that he has examined all the facts for himself and states that Rybka is undeniably nothing more than a Fruit ripoff and which versions this applies to (statements that he would be prepared to defend in a legal sense), I will be perfectly happy to personally stop testing those versions ...
"those versions" only ?

Matthias.
I'm quite sure Graham will do the honorable thing and immediately stop testing Rybka 1.0 and 2.0.
You could have quoted me without cutting out the key point of my post:

Code: Select all

Why do you then reject latest Ivanhoe versions even if Ippolit were a clone ?
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
User avatar
Houdini
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Houdini »

Ovyron wrote:Easy, you make one change to the code and now you have Rybka 3.1, you delete Rybka 3 code, you make a change and call it Rybka 3.2, you delete Rybka 3.1 code.

By the time you're at Rybka 4, you've already rewritten most(?) of the code and the original code has been lost (as a fact it happened with the time control code and Vas had to code a new one).
No professional software developer would ever work this way.
Please Google "VCS", Version Control System.

Robert
User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 41392
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Graham Banks »

mwyoung wrote:Now that we know Mr. Banks standard of evidence for what programs can and can not be on his Rating List. That have been accused of being clones, or programs with accusation of stole code or ideas.

I am sure Mr. Banks will be posting the Houdini 1.5 results on his rating list today. Since Houdini does not meet this standard of evidence for exclusion on Mr. Banks CCRL rating list.
1. I am only one tester. CCRL is a group of testers.
2. I have personally chosen not to test the Ippo family of engines.

This thread is supposed to be about the Rybka/Fruit issue, not about CCRL or myself.
gbanksnz at gmail.com
User avatar
Houdini
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Houdini »

Matthias Gemuh wrote:You could have quoted me without cutting out the key point of my post
I always try to quote exactly the text my response applies to.

Robert
User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 41392
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Graham Banks »

Matthias Gemuh wrote:You could have quoted me without cutting out the key point of my post:

Code: Select all

Why do you then reject latest Ivanhoe versions even if Ippolit were a clone ?
Because I choose not to, just as many others have also chosen not to. Personal choice.
gbanksnz at gmail.com