Fabien's open letter to the community

[Peter Skinner]

First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care which as I wrote turned out to be a huge lie....
Dr.D

I confirm: no contact with Vasik.
I would like to have a pointer too.

Thanks,

Fabien.

And thanks from my side Fabien....

He didn't thank you for anything you said(in case you misunderstood it).
He just meant it like a "Thanks in advance" way.

And he is thanking you in advance, since he(Fabien) is interested in seeing the original statement of Vasik that you have told us in your previous post that he said in the past, that is:
"First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care "

So can you give as a link to his original statement(s) saying that?
•Peter(Skinner) wanted a reference for this.
•Fabien later wanted also a reference about this.
I would like to see it also.

Can you provide it? Simple as that.
And it can be easy to find since you said that he had been spreading it all these years. Constantly i guess, in many public boards.

So? Any reference?
As they say: Link or it didn't happen.

Fabien's intention toward me is none of your business....

Vasik said that several times in the Rybka forum and in one of his infamous interviews....go do the search yourself,I don't work for you....

And one more thing....Fabien didn't ask me to show where Vasik said so,so stop twisting the facts....

I have spent the better part of two days trying to find that quote, and I simply can't.

So if you have a link to it, I would greatly appreciate it. Being that Fabian states that he never knew this whole situation has been happening, it would certainly shed some light on some of my own conclusions to see it in print that Vas said the above statement.

Everyone on here knows I am not a Rybka fan boy.. hell I was one of the first people to publicly state Rybka was a Fruit clone.

So please.. if you have a link to it, I would really appreciate it being sent to me. Even a PM with it is fine. I have searched through 5 years of interviews and can't seem to find it.

Peter

[JuLieN]

So please.. if you have a link to it, I would really appreciate it being sent to me. Even a PM with it is fine. I have searched through 5 years of interviews and can't seem to find it.

Greetings link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-8Bl0ZBlK0
Sorry Peter, I couldn't resist!

Now, back to the subject : my belief is that Wael got confused and mixed several declarations Vasik made.

-> Vasik said that he took a look at Fruit's code but that was long after he started coding his engine. As a result, the few tricks he borrowed from Fruit are worth, according to him, +20 Elo points.
-> Then during the Ippolit controversy, Vas claimed that it was a clone of Rybka 3 and that not only its authors didn't denied it but even informed him of their progress by private mails.

If you want a pointer, here it is : http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/chess ... ntroversy/
(the whole page is interesting to read, especially Rybka's debuts.)

(BTW, Vasik's statements are his own : I just report them and that doesn't mean that I make or don't make them mine.)

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care which as I wrote turned out to be a huge lie....
Dr.D

I confirm: no contact with Vasik.
I would like to have a pointer too.

Thanks,

Fabien.

And thanks from my side Fabien....

He didn't thank you for anything you said(in case you misunderstood it).
He just meant it like a "Thanks in advance" way.

And he is thanking you in advance, since he(Fabien) is interested in seeing the original statement of Vasik that you have told us in your previous post that he said in the past, that is:
"First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care "

So can you give as a link to his original statement(s) saying that?
•Peter(Skinner) wanted a reference for this.
•Fabien later wanted also a reference about this.
I would like to see it also.

Can you provide it? Simple as that.
And it can be easy to find since you said that he had been spreading it all these years. Constantly i guess, in many public boards.

So? Any reference?
As they say: Link or it didn't happen.

Fabien's intention toward me is none of your business....

Vasik said that several times in the Rybka forum and in one of his infamous interviews....go do the search yourself,I don't work for you....

And one more thing....Fabien didn't ask me to show where Vasik said so,so stop twisting the facts....

I have spent the better part of two days trying to find that quote, and I simply can't.

So if you have a link to it, I would greatly appreciate it. Being that Fabian states that he never knew this whole situation has been happening, it would certainly shed some light on some of my own conclusions to see it in print that Vas said the above statement.

Everyone on here knows I am not a Rybka fan boy.. hell I was one of the first people to publicly state Rybka was a Fruit clone.

So please.. if you have a link to it, I would really appreciate it being sent to me. Even a PM with it is fine. I have searched through 5 years of interviews and can't seem to find it.

Peter

No problem Peter....if I find the link I will post it here....

The problem is that I have to search through tons of posts to find a needle in the hay hill....

But I am sure that Vasik said that....He said it and the truth will come out one way or the other....
Dr.D

[wolfv]

Hi Tord,

thank you very much for trying to help clear up the big issue. As Fabien said in his open letter that Strelka was a rewrite of Fruit as a bitboard engine, I am attaching what Rajlich wrote back in 2008 (Rybka Forum) as his comments on Strelka. One interesting point that he made was to say that he 'claimed Strelka to be his own engine'. Go figure. Anyway, here's the complete text that may help Fabien get some more info on the issue:


"Date 2008-01-11 12:26

I've taken a look this morning at the Strelka 2.0 sources. The picture is quite clear.

Vast sections of these sources started their life as a decompiled Rybka 1.0. The traces of this are everywhere. The board representation is identical, and all sorts of absolutely unique Rybka code methods, bitboard tricks and even exact data tables are used throughout. Significant portions of the search and evaluation logic are not fully disassembled - the author has left in hardcoded constants and used generic names (such as "PawnStruScore0" & "PawnStruScore1", "PassedPawnValue0" through "PassedPawnValue7", etc) which show that he hasn't yet fully understood what is happening.

In some cases, these traces do also extend beyond the inner search and evaluation kernel. For instance, Rybka and Strelka are the only engines which I know about which don't report "seldepth" and "hashfull". Rybka's UCI strings are used throughout.

The author did at first make attempts to hide the Rybka origins, for example by masking the table values in earlier Strelka versions. He also made significant attempts to improve the program. The attempts at improvement are not very original, but they are everywhere. They include PV collection, null verification (and in fact changes to the null implementation itself), some endgame drawishness heuristics, a handful of new evaluation term, a new approach to blending between opening and endgame eval terms, and so on. They also do include various structural changes, such as knight underpromotions, on-the-fly calculations of many tables, the setting of piece-square table values, etc. These changes are extensive and no doubt lead to differences in playing style and perhaps a useful engine for users to have, but they do not change the illegality of the code base.

In light of the above, I am claiming Strelka 2.0 as my own and will release it in the next few days under my own name. The name of the author with the pen name "Osipov" will be included if he comes forward with hiw own real name, otherwise an anonymous contribution will be noted. The contributions of Igor Korshunov will also be confirmed and noted if appropriate. All usage permissions will be granted with this release.

I do not see obvious signs of other code usage, but perhaps this deserves a closer look. Some of the transplanted ideas, such as the null verification search, are rather naive implementations of the approach in Fruit/Toga, although my first impression is that that code itself is original. The Winboard parser from Beowolf which was added to Strelka 1.0 seems to have been completely removed. If someone else does find other signs of code theft, please get in touch with me and I will give proper credit in the upcoming release.

If someone has suggestions about an appropriate license, and in particular the pros and cons of the GPL for a chess engine and for this unusual scenario, or if someone would be willing to help in preparing this code and license for release, please also get in touch with me.

As this code is two years and several hundred Elo old, I am not going to launch any major action. However, 'Osipov' has already threatened to repeat the procedure with Rybka 2.3.2a. (He did this after I declined to grant him rights to commercialize Strelka.) If this situation does repeat with a newer Rybka version, I will not just stand and watch any more. In the meantime, if someone has information about 'Osipov', please get in touch with me.

Vas"

[Graham Banks]

First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care which as I wrote turned out to be a huge lie....
Dr.D

I confirm: no contact with Vasik.
I would like to have a pointer too.

Thanks,

Fabien.

And thanks from my side Fabien....

He didn't thank you for anything you said(in case you misunderstood it).
He just meant it like a "Thanks in advance" way.

And he is thanking you in advance, since he(Fabien) is interested in seeing the original statement of Vasik that you have told us in your previous post that he said in the past, that is:
"First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care "

So can you give as a link to his original statement(s) saying that?
•Peter(Skinner) wanted a reference for this.
•Fabien later wanted also a reference about this.
I would like to see it also.

Can you provide it? Simple as that.
And it can be easy to find since you said that he had been spreading it all these years. Constantly i guess, in many public boards.

So? Any reference?
As they say: Link or it didn't happen.

Fabien's intention toward me is none of your business....

Vasik said that several times in the Rybka forum and in one of his infamous interviews....go do the search yourself,I don't work for you....

And one more thing....Fabien didn't ask me to show where Vasik said so,so stop twisting the facts....

I don't like to tell you this Wael, but nobody can find where Vas ever stated this (or even recall it).
The closest that anybody can find is where Stefan Meyer-Kahlen stated that he'd had email contact with Fabien.

Cheers,
Graham.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care which as I wrote turned out to be a huge lie....
Dr.D

I confirm: no contact with Vasik.
I would like to have a pointer too.

Thanks,

Fabien.

And thanks from my side Fabien....

He didn't thank you for anything you said(in case you misunderstood it).
He just meant it like a "Thanks in advance" way.

And he is thanking you in advance, since he(Fabien) is interested in seeing the original statement of Vasik that you have told us in your previous post that he said in the past, that is:
"First thing came to my thoughts after reading the article is a huge lie Vasik was spreading through all these years....that he,Vasik,contacted Fabien regarding the fruit-Rybka affair and Fabien is fine with it and even doesn't care "

So can you give as a link to his original statement(s) saying that?
•Peter(Skinner) wanted a reference for this.
•Fabien later wanted also a reference about this.
I would like to see it also.

Can you provide it? Simple as that.
And it can be easy to find since you said that he had been spreading it all these years. Constantly i guess, in many public boards.

So? Any reference?
As they say: Link or it didn't happen.

Fabien's intention toward me is none of your business....

Vasik said that several times in the Rybka forum and in one of his infamous interviews....go do the search yourself,I don't work for you....

And one more thing....Fabien didn't ask me to show where Vasik said so,so stop twisting the facts....

I don't like to tell you this Wael, but nobody can find where Vas ever stated this (or even recall it).
The closest that anybody can find is where Stefan Meyer-Kahlen stated that he'd had email contact with Fabien.

Cheers,
Graham.

No problem Graham....
I am sure that I read somewhere that he contacted Fabien regarding the issue and he's ok with it....
The truth will pop up at a certin moment....
Dr.D

[Guenther]

Hi Guenther,

Fabien did voice his interest in the issue and also voiced his opinion that Strelka is definitely a Fruit clone. On the other hand we know that Rajlich said that Strelka is actually Rybka.

Hi Djordje,

I never took this literally and he also retreated this statement later.
I guess he was not amused to find so much Rybka specific things in it
especially the material table and thus said the missleading words in a first
approach.(Also don't forget that after this Osipov made Strelka look more
and more like Fruit, may be already with the goal to bring him in a difficult position)

Guenther

[AdminX]

I think too much is being made about Rybka 1.0 beta and since that was free, I don't see it as a big deal

Not all Versions of Rybka 1 were a free beta. Vas himself said that later versions of Rybka 1 were Commercial. You can here him say so in this Nelson Hernandez video. (About 14:30 minutes into the video)

http://chessok.com/download/A%20Convers ... ajlich.wmv

also posted here

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=14546

[slobo]

And one more thing....Fabien didn't ask me to show where Vasik said so,so stop twisting the facts....

I asked for a link, but testimony by others would be useful for me.

Are we talking about the same thing: "Vasik said he contacted Fabien about xxx and Fabien answered it was OK for him"?
Who else remembers this? What was "xxx"?

Fabien.

I'll try my best to find at least one link to confirm this....

Unfortunately,I don't have the habbit to keep records of statements posted through the computer chess fora and now I regret it....

But I am sure that Vasik said this,I read it with my own eyes....I hope other people can help....

As a physician I am used to remember my patients verbal statements and keep them for the evaluation of their condition....so I'm pretty sure Vasik did say so and that's why he's keeping radio silence....one of the reasons at least....
Dr.D

Wael, who said it for sure was Stefan Meyer-Kahlen; the register has been found. I am not sure it was Mr Rybka. That´s why you should found out the link for your citation. Because it is possible that you´ve made a mistake: a memory lapse.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

And one more thing....Fabien didn't ask me to show where Vasik said so,so stop twisting the facts....

I asked for a link, but testimony by others would be useful for me.

Are we talking about the same thing: "Vasik said he contacted Fabien about xxx and Fabien answered it was OK for him"?
Who else remembers this? What was "xxx"?

Fabien.

I'll try my best to find at least one link to confirm this....

Unfortunately,I don't have the habbit to keep records of statements posted through the computer chess fora and now I regret it....

But I am sure that Vasik said this,I read it with my own eyes....I hope other people can help....

As a physician I am used to remember my patients verbal statements and keep them for the evaluation of their condition....so I'm pretty sure Vasik did say so and that's why he's keeping radio silence....one of the reasons at least....
Dr.D

Wael, who said it for sure was Stefan Meyer-Kahlen; the register has been found. I am not sure it was Mr Rybka. That´s why you should found out the link for your citation. Because it is possible that you´ve made a mistake: a memory lapse.

Maybe,but I doubt that....
Anyway,we'll see....
Dr.D