Vas, Hyatt, Levy, ICGA, WCCC, Confusion and Nausea

[hgm]

Look at the Langer case which Levy chose as a first example in his public demonstration on chessvibes.

He says things like, then Richard (Lang) came to me and showed me that Langer was a cheat because he had my program basically. etc pp.

And then what, when this is not against any rule?

[hgm]

This is my main critic. Which is a problem for you because basically you all believe in someone like Bob. But he isnt a perfect judge either. He's not a lawyer either.

1) It is NOT a problem for me, as I am not involved with any of this in any way.
2) There is no need for me or anyone else to believe Bob. If we would be interested (which I am definitely not), we would look at the evidence as presented in the committee report, check out the factual claims therein based on the mentioned Rybka binaries, the Crafty source, the Fruit source, and whatever is mentioned, and we would KNOW if Bob spoke true or not. Believing is for nitwits...

So as long as you just go blah-blah about procedures, lawyers and justice, your 'critic' is thin air to us. (Which not necessarily means it cannot be smelly...) You would have to come with FACTS like "Bob writes in the report that the Rybka binary contains ... at location ..., but I see in the mentioned Rybka binary ... in stead. Otherwise everything you write will simply be treated like verbal diarrhea.

[wgarvin]

So I dont get it why Vas is singled out by his peer group.

It appears to me you have been making a concerted effort to not understand this. It's really simple.

He has been "singled out" because he cheated, copying large chunks of code from his competitors and then claiming it was his own original work. There was evidence of this copying, and a complaint was made to the ICGA, which was duly investigated.

If you think some other engine author has also cheated in a similar fashion, all you have to do is dig up some concrete evidence and submit it to the ICGA and I'm sure they will investigate.

[Rolf]

You would have to come with FACTS like "Bob writes in the report that the Rybka binary contains ... at location ..., but I see in the mentioned Rybka binary ... in stead. Otherwise everything you write will simply be treated like verbal diarrhea.

For you as a Dutch this might not mean much but since I'm talking to Americans, I'm sure that something like democracy and fair justice are basics. Ok, if others call that diarrhea, that is their personal opinion. I wouldnt forbid such extreme positions. For me Vas is innocent at least until a judge has spoken in a real court trial. As a modern German I do no longer believe in mass hystery.

[Rolf]

So I dont get it why Vas is singled out by his peer group.

It appears to me you have been making a concerted effort to not understand this. It's really simple.

He has been "singled out" because he cheated, copying large chunks of code from his competitors and then claiming it was his own original work. There was evidence of this copying, and a complaint was made to the ICGA, which was duly investigated.

If you think some other engine author has also cheated in a similar fashion, all you have to do is dig up some concrete evidence and submit it to the ICGA and I'm sure they will investigate.

Nono.

You want to tell me that this is my work and not yours, to clarify that no other cheated too. I think that you begin to understand in what a mess the ICGA has brought you all. Because if all have done what allegedly Vas should have done, your case would have disappeared.

My concept of innocence is this. As Vas said he hasnt done anything wrong and what he took was public domain. So not guilty. BTW I wish all good luck if they decide to go to court. That will be fun. Note that I'm not Vasik's lawyer. I'm the classical fanboy, I am always backing the outsingled and beloaden. I'm against hate campaigns and prejudices. Against unfairness and lynchjustice. For centuries I am against witchhunting. If ou know what I mean

[hgm]

For me Vas is innocent at least until a judge has spoken in a real court trial.

Well, so for you he is innocent, and probably will remain so forever. And in the mean time he is banned from the WCCC and stripped of his titles. Probably also forever. So good luck with your opinion. It serves no other purpose than showing how much out of touch with reality you are...

[bob]

So I dont get it why Vas is singled out by his peer group.

It appears to me you have been making a concerted effort to not understand this. It's really simple.

He has been "singled out" because he cheated, copying large chunks of code from his competitors and then claiming it was his own original work. There was evidence of this copying, and a complaint was made to the ICGA, which was duly investigated.

If you think some other engine author has also cheated in a similar fashion, all you have to do is dig up some concrete evidence and submit it to the ICGA and I'm sure they will investigate.

Nono.

You want to tell me that this is my work and not yours, to clarify that no other cheated too. I think that you begin to understand in what a mess the ICGA has brought you all. Because if all have done what allegedly Vas should have done, your case would have disappeared.

My concept of innocence is this. As Vas said he hasnt done anything wrong and what he took was public domain. So not guilty. BTW I wish all good luck if they decide to go to court. That will be fun. Note that I'm not Vasik's lawyer. I'm the classical fanboy, I am always backing the outsingled and beloaden. I'm against hate campaigns and prejudices. Against unfairness and lynchjustice. For centuries I am against witchhunting. If ou know what I mean

That's utter nonsense. Every time there is a crime committed in some city in some country, do the cops have to investigate every person on the planet to make sure no one else has committed that crime before they can prosecute the one they did catch red-handed. That is about the most nonsensical application of the word "justice" I have ever heard. "demented" comes to mind...

[bob]

You would have to come with FACTS like "Bob writes in the report that the Rybka binary contains ... at location ..., but I see in the mentioned Rybka binary ... in stead. Otherwise everything you write will simply be treated like verbal diarrhea.

For you as a Dutch this might not mean much but since I'm talking to Americans, I'm sure that something like democracy and fair justice are basics. Ok, if others call that diarrhea, that is their personal opinion. I wouldnt forbid such extreme positions. For me Vas is innocent at least until a judge has spoken in a real court trial. As a modern German I do no longer believe in mass hystery.

If the FSF takes this to court, Vas will get burned again. Until they do, the ICGA has done due diligence and ruled that he violated their rules. That part of this is _over_ and is not part of history. If new evidence should come to light, it would be re-visited for Rybka 3/4/5, but nobody is going to re-visit 1.6.1 thru Rybka 2.3.2a as the evidence is convincing, for those that look.

[Don]

You would have to come with FACTS like "Bob writes in the report that the Rybka binary contains ... at location ..., but I see in the mentioned Rybka binary ... in stead. Otherwise everything you write will simply be treated like verbal diarrhea.

For you as a Dutch this might not mean much but since I'm talking to Americans, I'm sure that something like democracy and fair justice are basics. Ok, if others call that diarrhea, that is their personal opinion. I wouldnt forbid such extreme positions. For me Vas is innocent at least until a judge has spoken in a real court trial. As a modern German I do no longer believe in mass hystery.

You are hung up on the idea of being judged in a court of law - but I have to point out to you that this could go very much against Vas. A court of law has the teeth to impose a harsh sentence, all the ICGA can do is say Vas cannot play in their events, a very mild slap on the wrist.

You also ignore the point that it would be totally ridiculous for the ICGA to take Vas to court over this. Why would they do this? This would cost them a great deal of time and expense and also would consume Vas. I think the majority of people in the USA consider most lawsuits to be frivolous and counter-productive anyway, it's not about justice it is MUCH more about how clever the lawyers are and how much you can afford to pay them. Suing someone, ESPECIALLY in business matters is a matter of battle strategy, not justice. Microsoft sues companies all day long, usually to force concessions from them. Did you know there are Android phone makers that pay Microsoft for every Android sold, even though Android has nothing to do with Microsoft? This is due to bully tactics. It's not about justice and you are like a child in your naivety that this is how to correctly resolve matters.

Furthermore, to make this actually happen Vas would have to be the one to take the initiative. Again, the ICGA had the right to enforce their own rules and they did and it's a done deal. Why would they do something as stupid as taking this to court? It would be like going to court to ask permission to mow your lawn.

You need to start thinking straight on this. I know you are in love with Vas for some reason but you are getting to the point of being ridiculous.

[hgm]

Light-years past it, actually...