fixedMatthias Gemuh wrote:
Current ChessGUI misses to consider the first ply after book. Shall be fixed.
Matthias.
http://www.chessgui.com/chess/ChessGUI.zip
ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
Matthias Gemuh
- Posts: 3245
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
http://www.chessgui.com/chess/ChessGUI.zip
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
-
Graham Banks
- Posts: 41477
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
- Location: Auckland, NZ
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
Matthias Gemuh wrote:fixedMatthias Gemuh wrote:
Current ChessGUI misses to consider the first ply after book. Shall be fixed.
Matthias.
http://www.chessgui.com/chess/ChessGUI.zip
gbanksnz at gmail.com
-
Graham Banks
- Posts: 41477
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
- Location: Auckland, NZ
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
Seems to work well Matthias.Graham Banks wrote:Matthias Gemuh wrote:fixedMatthias Gemuh wrote:
Current ChessGUI misses to consider the first ply after book. Shall be fixed.
Matthias.
http://www.chessgui.com/chess/ChessGUI.zip
gbanksnz at gmail.com
-
Matthias Gemuh
- Posts: 3245
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
Can you pause the tournament and show us here the lines in Unfair_Openings.txt (GUI_DATA folder) that concern the replayed opening ?Graham Banks wrote: Seems to work well Matthias.
I just want see what gets printed about it.
The lines go from one ";---------------------" to the next.
Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
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Graham Banks
- Posts: 41477
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
- Location: Auckland, NZ
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
;---------------------Matthias Gemuh wrote:Can you pause the tournament and show us here the lines in Unfair_Openings.txt (GUI_DATA folder) that concern the replayed opening ?Graham Banks wrote: Seems to work well Matthias.
I just want see what gets printed about it.
The lines go from one ";---------------------" to the next.
Matthias.
;70 (150, -55)
;---------------------
;70 (10, -65)
;---------------------
;70 (36, 6)
;---------------------
;70 (-14, 48)
;---------------------
;70 (-103, 151)
;70 (-104, 168)
;70 (-116, 125)
;70 (-90, 80)
;70 (-76, 90)
;70 (-59, 99)
;---------------------
;70 (-13, 22)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 43)
;---------------------
;70 (14, 4)
;---------------------
;70 (9, -17)
;---------------------
;70 (7, -68)
;---------------------
;70 (35, -28)
;---------------------
;70 (56, -56)
;---------------------
;70 (2, 3)
;---------------------
;70 (0, -5)
;---------------------
;70 (50, 0)
;---------------------
;70 (56, -35)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 0)
;---------------------
;70 (63, -19)
;---------------------
;70 (27, -13)
;---------------------
;70 (12, 19)
;---------------------
;70 (62, -66)
;---------------------
;70 (-13, 0)
;---------------------
;70 (-17, 19)
;---------------------
;70 (-62, -19)
;---------------------
;70 (43, -38)
;---------------------
;70 (8, -17)
;---------------------
;70 (39, -64)
;---------------------
;70 (-21, 54)
;---------------------
;70 (6, -8)
;---------------------
;70 (-20, 57)
;---------------------
;70 (-36, -2)
;---------------------
;70 (-3, 2)
;---------------------
;70 (14, -21)
;---------------------
;70 (107, -42)
gbanksnz at gmail.com
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Graham Banks
- Posts: 41477
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
- Location: Auckland, NZ
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
Here's another file:
;---------------------
;70 (25, 69)
;---------------------
;70 (38, 38)
;---------------------
;70 (32, 83)
;---------------------
;70 (6, 85)
;---------------------
;70 (103, 11)
;---------------------
;70 (-53, 63)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 20)
;---------------------
;70 (85, -57)
;---------------------
;70 (300, -297)
;70 (295, -299)
;70 (311, -301)
;70 (309, -311)
;70 (309, -297)
;70 (208, -250)
;70 (217, -201)
;70 (215, -48)
;---------------------
;70 (-191, 244)
;70 (-160, 177)
;70 (-141, 166)
;70 (-39, 95)
;---------------------
;70 (-4, 172)
;---------------------
;70 (-9, 31)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 15)
;---------------------
;70 (27, 2)
;---------------------
;70 (-3, 13)
;---------------------
;70 (-35, 28)
;---------------------
;70 (-39, 87)
;---------------------
;70 (-29, 62)
;---------------------
;70 (41, 11)
;---------------------
;70 (167, -85)
;70 (152, -36)
;---------------------
;70 (-84, 86)
;70 (-94, 104)
;70 (-63, 101)
;---------------------
;70 (-38, 98)
;---------------------
;70 (-22, 20)
;---------------------
;70 (39, -21)
;---------------------
;70 (50, -131)
;---------------------
;70 (18, -29)
;---------------------
;70 (0, -12)
;---------------------
;70 (53, -57)
;---------------------
;70 (-37, 43)
;---------------------
;70 (-25, 6)
;---------------------
;70 (9, -7)
;---------------------
;70 (71, -42)
;---------------------
;70 (13, -38)
;---------------------
;70 (-23, 41)
;---------------------
;70 (62, 32)
;---------------------
;70 (22, 7)
;---------------------
;70 (-6, 10)
;---------------------
;70 (28, -1)
;---------------------
;70 (41, -47)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 16)
;---------------------
;70 (52, -46)
;---------------------
;70 (12, -81)
;---------------------
;70 (40, -69)
;---------------------
;70 (11, -11)
;---------------------
;70 (-7, 33)
;---------------------
;70 (44, -8)
;---------------------
;70 (-20, 34)
;---------------------
;70 (36, -57)
;---------------------
;70 (11, -1)
;---------------------
;70 (2, 12)
;---------------------
;70 (25, -10)
;---------------------
;70 (43, -66)
;---------------------
;70 (84, -33)
;---------------------
;70 (-59, 20)
;---------------------
;70 (-14, 27)
;---------------------
;70 (25, 69)
;---------------------
;70 (38, 38)
;---------------------
;70 (32, 83)
;---------------------
;70 (6, 85)
;---------------------
;70 (103, 11)
;---------------------
;70 (-53, 63)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 20)
;---------------------
;70 (85, -57)
;---------------------
;70 (300, -297)
;70 (295, -299)
;70 (311, -301)
;70 (309, -311)
;70 (309, -297)
;70 (208, -250)
;70 (217, -201)
;70 (215, -48)
;---------------------
;70 (-191, 244)
;70 (-160, 177)
;70 (-141, 166)
;70 (-39, 95)
;---------------------
;70 (-4, 172)
;---------------------
;70 (-9, 31)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 15)
;---------------------
;70 (27, 2)
;---------------------
;70 (-3, 13)
;---------------------
;70 (-35, 28)
;---------------------
;70 (-39, 87)
;---------------------
;70 (-29, 62)
;---------------------
;70 (41, 11)
;---------------------
;70 (167, -85)
;70 (152, -36)
;---------------------
;70 (-84, 86)
;70 (-94, 104)
;70 (-63, 101)
;---------------------
;70 (-38, 98)
;---------------------
;70 (-22, 20)
;---------------------
;70 (39, -21)
;---------------------
;70 (50, -131)
;---------------------
;70 (18, -29)
;---------------------
;70 (0, -12)
;---------------------
;70 (53, -57)
;---------------------
;70 (-37, 43)
;---------------------
;70 (-25, 6)
;---------------------
;70 (9, -7)
;---------------------
;70 (71, -42)
;---------------------
;70 (13, -38)
;---------------------
;70 (-23, 41)
;---------------------
;70 (62, 32)
;---------------------
;70 (22, 7)
;---------------------
;70 (-6, 10)
;---------------------
;70 (28, -1)
;---------------------
;70 (41, -47)
;---------------------
;70 (0, 16)
;---------------------
;70 (52, -46)
;---------------------
;70 (12, -81)
;---------------------
;70 (40, -69)
;---------------------
;70 (11, -11)
;---------------------
;70 (-7, 33)
;---------------------
;70 (44, -8)
;---------------------
;70 (-20, 34)
;---------------------
;70 (36, -57)
;---------------------
;70 (11, -1)
;---------------------
;70 (2, 12)
;---------------------
;70 (25, -10)
;---------------------
;70 (43, -66)
;---------------------
;70 (84, -33)
;---------------------
;70 (-59, 20)
;---------------------
;70 (-14, 27)
gbanksnz at gmail.com
-
Matthias Gemuh
- Posts: 3245
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
This opening looked really bad till the losing side suddenly said it is playable.Graham Banks wrote:Here's another file:
;---------------------
;70 (300, -297)
;70 (295, -299)
;70 (311, -301)
;70 (309, -311)
;70 (309, -297)
;70 (208, -250)
;70 (217, -201)
;70 (215, -48)
;---------------------
So far, no game had to be replayed.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
-
Matthias Gemuh
- Posts: 3245
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
If an opening is replayed, you'll see something likeMatthias Gemuh wrote:This opening looked really bad till the losing side suddenly said it is playable.Graham Banks wrote:Here's another file:
;---------------------
;70 (300, -297)
;70 (295, -299)
;70 (311, -301)
;70 (309, -311)
;70 (309, -297)
;70 (208, -250)
;70 (217, -201)
;70 (215, -48)
;---------------------
So far, no game had to be replayed.
;---------------------
;50 (56, -58)
;50 (55, -54)
;50 (56, -52)
;50 (52, -58)
;50 (54, -56)
;50 (68, -55)
;50 (70, -91)
;50 (75, -88)
;50 (93, -65)
;50 (79, -104)
;50 (79, -83)
;50 (133, -80)
;50 (67, -80)
;Book moves = 8, D:\Spiele\ChessGUI\GUI_DATA\ChsGUI_Book.cgb
1.c4 b6 2.e4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e6 4.a3 g6 5.d4 Bg7 6.Nf3 d6 7.Bd3 Nd7 8.O-O h6 9.Be3 Ngf6 10.h3 O-O 11.Bc2 e5 12.d5 Nh5 13.Qd2 Nf4 14.g3 g5 15.h4 Ba6 16.Nb5 Bc8 17.hxg5 hxg5 18.Qd1 a6 19.Nc3 g4 20.Nh4 Qg5
;---------------------
Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
-
Graham Banks
- Posts: 41477
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
- Location: Auckland, NZ
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
Very good.Matthias Gemuh wrote:If an opening is replayed, you'll see something likeMatthias Gemuh wrote:This opening looked really bad till the losing side suddenly said it is playable.Graham Banks wrote:Here's another file:
;---------------------
;70 (300, -297)
;70 (295, -299)
;70 (311, -301)
;70 (309, -311)
;70 (309, -297)
;70 (208, -250)
;70 (217, -201)
;70 (215, -48)
;---------------------
So far, no game had to be replayed.
;---------------------
;50 (56, -58)
;50 (55, -54)
;50 (56, -52)
;50 (52, -58)
;50 (54, -56)
;50 (68, -55)
;50 (70, -91)
;50 (75, -88)
;50 (93, -65)
;50 (79, -104)
;50 (79, -83)
;50 (133, -80)
;50 (67, -80)
;Book moves = 8, D:\Spiele\ChessGUI\GUI_DATA\ChsGUI_Book.cgb
1.c4 b6 2.e4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e6 4.a3 g6 5.d4 Bg7 6.Nf3 d6 7.Bd3 Nd7 8.O-O h6 9.Be3 Ngf6 10.h3 O-O 11.Bc2 e5 12.d5 Nh5 13.Qd2 Nf4 14.g3 g5 15.h4 Ba6 16.Nb5 Bc8 17.hxg5 hxg5 18.Qd1 a6 19.Nc3 g4 20.Nh4 Qg5
;---------------------
Matthias.
gbanksnz at gmail.com
-
Mike S.
- Posts: 1480
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:33 am
Re: ChessGUI 0.233 and fairness
I think this feature is a very good idea. Some notes:
1. The setting should count calculated moves, not absolute moves by move number. Thus, opening variations of different length could be handled the same way, IOW checked with the same number of engine evals.
2. If the number of moves which check for fairness is big, it could probably happen that engine-based opening blunders and/or deep combos result in a cancelled game even if the predefined opening was good.
3. Gambits tend to be misevaluated for a couple of moves while the engines handle it fairly well, resulting in more balanced evals later (not always, but often). That is why I think a threshold like 70 may be too small, although it seems big for normal non-gambitoise variations at the same time.
Considering this, I think not more than 2 or max. 3 engine moves should decide if a game is cancelled and I would use a threshold of 120, even if some bad variations may escape.
1. The setting should count calculated moves, not absolute moves by move number. Thus, opening variations of different length could be handled the same way, IOW checked with the same number of engine evals.
2. If the number of moves which check for fairness is big, it could probably happen that engine-based opening blunders and/or deep combos result in a cancelled game even if the predefined opening was good.
3. Gambits tend to be misevaluated for a couple of moves while the engines handle it fairly well, resulting in more balanced evals later (not always, but often). That is why I think a threshold like 70 may be too small, although it seems big for normal non-gambitoise variations at the same time.
Considering this, I think not more than 2 or max. 3 engine moves should decide if a game is cancelled and I would use a threshold of 120, even if some bad variations may escape.
Regards, Mike