Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins

[Dave Mitchell]

Thanks for the info, Eelco. Very helpful.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Thanks Julien for your main message too !!
And all others in this thread which understand the situation.

For all ...
Have a nice evening ...
Garden is waiting, so many things to do!
Weather is great!

Best
Frank

[rodolfoleoni]

Hi Julien,

I'm rather optimistic about the CC future. It's matter of being able to an hand shake after some misunderstandings happened, and it's matter of respecting others, different opinions. It seems a delicate moment because it's the first time this community is facing such heavy issues. It's positive. It shows problems can be solved.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Eelco,

Fabian do a lot, and we all know that. Fabian is one of the best programmers computer chess saw. A very nice guy, I like him a lot and I have a lot of respect for his work.

But this can't solve the problem we have. It's time, before the year 2012 started, that we find our strengths back. Clones can't be more important as all other topics we have today in computer chess.

Also the file Fabian must be closed. I hope that Fabian come back with interesting things.

Fabian is the once programmer I can understand the signature on this open letter for some reasons. Perhaps as second person Stefan Meyer-Kahlen for some other reasons.

But also Fabian got the information by myself ... please not with open letters like this. This was a big mistake by Fabian and the others.

I await a sorry from all of this programmers which signature the open letter because ... its bad to give this topic new fire. Bad for computer chess and personally reasons should be not stronger as to power our main interest.

Each new fire in this discuss will give us a big damage because the topic ended with the ICGA decision.

For future events we need more rules and sources should be checked. Perhaps after a tourney the sources from the first three places. I don't know. Should be discuss by persons which organized the important tourneys.

Best
Frank

[Roger Brown]

I witness the discussion, and he did NOT accused you of copying CODE.

Miguel

Hello Doctor Ballicora,

This is some fine dancing - a bit like dancing between individual raindrops.

I read that thread and these posts by Rebel (Ed) would have led any reasonable reader to believe that Doctor Hyatt borrowed inappropriately from Rybka. Interestingly Vincent (Diep's author) stated that the ideas seemingly attributed to Rybka et al were tested by him years before the emergence of that engine.

You want to make the case that the word code was not used is a bit like saying I stole stuff but I did not kick the door down - I picked it open.

Tell me this, if someone had stated as Ed stated that you took ideas from Crafty in such a way that Gaviota behaved exactly like Crafty in terms of search etc. would you be drawing this fine a line between code and ideas?

Would you not be asking for evidence of what in your code suggested this similarity in behaviour and when such a change was in fact introduced?

I know I would.

Later.

http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php ... 477#p12968
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php ... =10#p12994
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php ... =20#p13058
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php ... =30#p13076

[rodolfoleoni]

Hi Frank,

don't you think that an open letter in an open forum has the purpose of making the community aware that a problem does exist? One can face and eventually solve only things which he knows about. So, why do you think this open letter is an horrible thing? There are many positive factors. One of them is your excellent idea about checking some sources after tourneys.

As a tester of The Baron, I can only agree with Richard Pijl signature. I often steal sleep time for analyzing Baron games, for helping Richard with developing next versions. Richard often spends his sleep time for bugfixes and for improving the engine. All of that is honest work which derives from passion. How should he feel when knowing a doubtful engine is invited to a tournament like Leiden? How should honest programmers feel?

So, let us take this open letter to write some more balanced rules for the future...

Regards,

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Rodolfo,

the topic is over with the ICGA decision. Personally attacks vs. Leiden and Cock de Corter I don't like and I can't support. Each new open letter is new fire we don't need.

Many reasons, I wrote about it.

Today I gave Richard an answer in CSS forum. He wrote a bit directly to myself.

Have fun in testing TheBaron!

Best
Frank

[Michel]

Again:

How can Computer Chess be a heap of ruins if the top ELO keeps going up and up? Perhaps by 100 points a year, on calibrated hardware.

For sure this progress is not due to threads like the current one (I am not speaking of the opening post which was correct, but it was a mistake nonetheless to open a new thread on this stuff yet again).

[bob]

Yes, Ed, I got that point: having signed a bit too fast the ICGA letter and then having second thoughts make you feel responsible for Vas.

Absolutely not my friend. I would do it for Bob in a similar situation.

Best to you,

Ed

Hmm from the SAME person that accused me of copying code from ippolit/robolito??? I didn't notice you defending me there. I noticed you making false statements and then being unable to back them up. I even gave you the diff output for the search code you said contained robo* code.

There's more to this story than just "I believe (now) that he didn't copy anything."

I witness the discussion, and he did NOT accused you of copying CODE.

Miguel

I saw some of it. Ed accussed Bob of copying code.

No.

Miguel
PS: Started with the influence of VR on other current programmers, and Ed included Bob in the group. It was about ideas.

You do realize that he asked me specifically "when are you going to remove the strelka/ip*/robo code from crafty?" He then pointed out a specific version. I diff'ed the search from that version vs the previous one to show that no code nor ideas were copied... He never responded...

[bob]

No.

Miguel
PS: Started with the influence of VR on other current programmers, and Ed included Bob in the group. It was about ideas.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

--------------------------------

I guess what triggered Bob's anger was the realization his (clean!!!) Crafty possibly could have been affected by all the huge discussions of the Strelka sources (=Rybka) after all on an unconscious level. That thought was unbearable.

So far so good, fine with me if one feels that way.

It does not mean he had the right to loose his anger on me.

Simple and easy to answer question: You gave a specific version that saw an improvement in the branching factor, as your "smoking gun" that I had copied ideas (or code) from strelka/robo*. I gave you a diff of that version and the previous version. Did you see ANY robo* idea that was ADDED? Or did you see two lines of code that were tuned, constant-wise, and which are not even present in robo*?

Your goal here, and then, was simply to divert attention away from the fruit/rybka discussion. And try to claim that EVERYBODY has copied ideas and/or code. As I said, and again here, "Not EVERYBODY copies what others have done."

Did you find any copied idea or code? Didn't think so. Did you ever retract your statement? Didn't think so. Ever plan on correcting the public record? Didn't think so.

Just more of the same...