WCCC 2011 - Junior is the 2011 World Champion

[bob]

According to Ed Shroeder, I would be a hypocrite if I implemented MP on Komodo because it's not my original idea, it would be plagiarism.

Correction, according to the ICGA.

There is absolutely no such opinion within the ICGA. Your statement is false, and you KNOW it is false. The ICGA journal proves that clearly.

[Don]

According to Ed Shroeder, I would be a hypocrite if I implemented MP on Komodo because it's not my original idea, it would be plagiarism.

Correction, according to the ICGA.

But it's your view that anyone that disagree's with your point of view is a hypocrite.

Your words, not mine. Please don't play silly words games with me, it's the bankruptcy of your argument.

You said that "everyone is doing it" meaning that we all use ideas from other programs and then you proposed a method so that nobody would have to feel like a hypocrite for doing this. If I got this wrong, please correct me.

So in order to "clear our guilt" we have to go along with your proposal which is to declare any sort of copying acceptable - which I might add cannot be done without author consent. Of course if the author doesn't consent he is a "hypocrite" and thus you are resorting to a form of blackmail.

Please tell me which part of this I got wrong, we have your posts on this you know.

Since I will use MP, then according to you I have no right to complain if someone makes an exact clone of Komodo. The words hypocrite is the one YOU used, not the ICGA.

Again, don't put things in my mouth I never said.

You didn't say that exact thing, but you DID say that anyone using ideas from the those that came before is a hypocrite unless he embraces your notion of making everything open. You cannot deny that, because you already HAVE called us a hypocrite for using ideas from all the top playing programs and yet not agreeing with you about Rybka.

So you have called every programmer on that panel (who doesn't agree with you) a hypocrite if they use ideas from Fruit or open source programs and yet thinks what Vas did was wrong. This is because you take the indefensible position that copying large sections of code verbatim is NO DIFFERENT than experimenting with ideas that are in other programs not your own.

To show how ridiculous this is, all I have to do is just have some idea in my program and it's protected. If anyone else uses it, they have to feel guilty. Don't you think it would be impossible to ever create a chess program if that were the case? (Unless of course you agreed that what Vas did was acceptable.)

You say you have lost all respect for me but the reality is that you have no respect for ANY of your programming peers who was on the panel and did not agree with you.

[ernest]

RobboLito searched much deeper than Rybka 3 (reaches depth = 15 vs depth = 11 during 1/1 blitz games)

Now that's nonsense, Norman!
It is "well known" that Rybka's depth 11 actually means depth 14 or 15...

[Don]

According to Ed Shroeder, I would be a hypocrite if I implemented MP on Komodo because it's not my original idea, it would be plagiarism.

Correction, according to the ICGA.

There is absolutely no such opinion within the ICGA. Your statement is false, and you KNOW it is false. The ICGA journal proves that clearly.

Bob,

Do you feel guilty because you adapted a form of LMR after Fruit made it popular and all the other program started using it? And yet you still had the audacity to convict Vas for copying large sections of code! Shame on you.

[Milos]

Ed is claiming that using ideas that might be in other programs makes you a hypocrite and plagiarist unless you conform to HIS viewpoint - that eveyone does this, therefore nobody has the write to complain about copying or code theft.

I am quickly losing my respect for you.

But the truth of the matter is that there was evidence of massive code copying and rewriting.

We are talking about Rybka now?

You voted a man guilty with consequences for his personal life and livelihood as well. You as direct competitor should have abstained from voting. So much for morality.

I think Don is enough of a technical expert in the field to be one of many PERFECT examples of people who SHOULD have voted... You should also have voted, but you chose to pout if I recall...

Being a technical expert has absolutely nothing to do with morality. I guess it would be to much to expect that you could understand that...

[Terry McCracken]

Ed is claiming that using ideas that might be in other programs makes you a hypocrite and plagiarist unless you conform to HIS viewpoint - that eveyone does this, therefore nobody has the write to complain about copying or code theft.

I am quickly losing my respect for you.

But the truth of the matter is that there was evidence of massive code copying and rewriting.

We are talking about Rybka now?

You voted a man guilty with consequences for his personal life and livelihood as well. You as direct competitor should have abstained from voting. So much for morality.

I think Don is enough of a technical expert in the field to be one of many PERFECT examples of people who SHOULD have voted... You should also have voted, but you chose to pout if I recall...

Being a technical expert has absolutely nothing to do with morality. I guess it would be to much to expect that you could understand that...

Too much for you, yes.

[geots]

The Ippo people, or at least Milos seems to be jealous and contemptuous of Junior's title and thinks that Junior should not have been shown any honor for the win. They don't respect anyone but themselves and they have the over-inflated EGO's.
If you look at the "real" authors you will see there is no such infighting among them.

I get your 'spin' Don...but it won't work.

The 'Ippo people' are 'real' authors, every bit as much as you...
very methodical and documented development, innovations galore, a complete table-base solution, java GUIs, etc.
(the list goes on and on, i won't waste space here)

and they're publishing a program that's stronger than Komodo (source code included!) for free...
while remaining anonymous... i.e. taking no individual credit for anything.

taking note of your endless anti-ippolit propaganda,
the question begs to be asked:
who's jealous, contemptuous (and/or over-inflated ego) here...you or them?

I have not even looked at Ivanhoe, only Robbolito but I decided to take a look at Ivanhoe and just downloaded the 99946f version and saw the interesting ComradsGui which is definitely something I am interested in as there are not many Linux choices for GUI's.

I tried to run it but I get a java error about Unsupported major.minor version 51.0

I tried a more updated Ubuntu distribution and get the same exact error. Does anyone here know how to work around this? In a major linux distribution this should just work.

As far as your comment about being Jealous because Ivanhoe is so much stronger than Komodo I have to disagree with you on both points. Komodo in my testing is stronger than Ivanhoe, even at really fast games where the Ippo's are especially strong. This is even with the Robbo bases on. I think your comment is based on old data.

Ivanhoe has many features Komodo does not yet have such as database and MP and so we cannot compete on multi-core hardware (although that's not actually clear to me, since Komodo is stronger you need at least 2 cores to compete with Komodo.) I assume Ivanhoe will be stronger on 4 cores because on one core our development versions of Komodo only appears to be 20 or 30 ELO stronger than Ivanhoe. The fairest match would be Ivanhoe on 2 cores vs Komodo on 1 core.

According to Ed Shroeder, I would be a hypocrite if I implemented MP on Komodo because it's not my original idea, it would be plagiarism. Others have done it before me and it would only be valid if I gave shared authorship to whoever did the first MP stuff. But I'm going to do it anyway.

By the way, even though you think Komodo is a clone of Ivanhoe I am seeing that it is almost a full ply faster than Komodo and does about 50% more nodes per second! And yet is still manages to be stronger than Ivanhoe. Apparently I copied all the ideas and did such a bad job the program acts completely different and is stronger.

Code: Select all

Rank Name           Elo      +      -    games   score   oppo.   draws 
   1 kse-4319.15  3027.2   46.5   46.5     193   54.7%  3000.0   44.0% 
   2 ih946f       3000.0   46.5   46.5     193   45.3%  3027.2   44.0% 


      TIME       RATIO    log(r)     NODES    log(r)  ave DEPTH    GAMES   PLAYER
 ---------  ----------  --------  --------  --------  ---------  -------   -----------
    1.8512       1.000     0.000     2.643     0.000    16.5064      193   ih946f
    1.8742       1.012     0.012     1.758    -0.408    15.6743      193   kse-4319.15

Komodo stays with Ivanhoe? Excuse me! Tomorrow I will start a 5 min. 3 sec blitz, no bases either, 1cpu 32bit, 128 mb. 50 game match- 9.46a vs. Komodo 3 starting tomorrow evening- or whatever Komodo you send me before then- if it exists. Has nothing to do with CCRL- private match by me, you and the Red Army.

If 9.46a played Rybka 4 damn tough it can handle Komodo. Since Rybka was running 4 core and Ivanhoe 1 core.

Only interested in your development version if you want it to run tomorrow. Results posted daily in Tourn. and Matches.

BTW- both will use Perfect 12.32 limited each to 8 move opening.

You win- then you win. I will be wrong. You will get honest results- you can bank on that. I will make an open apology right here to you if I am wrong.

I think you are in way, way, way over your head, but what can I say. I have nothing to lose.



Start tomorrow evening regards

gts

[Terry McCracken]

The Ippo people, or at least Milos seems to be jealous and contemptuous of Junior's title and thinks that Junior should not have been shown any honor for the win. They don't respect anyone but themselves and they have the over-inflated EGO's.
If you look at the "real" authors you will see there is no such infighting among them.

I get your 'spin' Don...but it won't work.

The 'Ippo people' are 'real' authors, every bit as much as you...
very methodical and documented development, innovations galore, a complete table-base solution, java GUIs, etc.
(the list goes on and on, i won't waste space here)

and they're publishing a program that's stronger than Komodo (source code included!) for free...
while remaining anonymous... i.e. taking no individual credit for anything.

taking note of your endless anti-ippolit propaganda,
the question begs to be asked:
who's jealous, contemptuous (and/or over-inflated ego) here...you or them?

I have not even looked at Ivanhoe, only Robbolito but I decided to take a look at Ivanhoe and just downloaded the 99946f version and saw the interesting ComradsGui which is definitely something I am interested in as there are not many Linux choices for GUI's.

I tried to run it but I get a java error about Unsupported major.minor version 51.0

I tried a more updated Ubuntu distribution and get the same exact error. Does anyone here know how to work around this? In a major linux distribution this should just work.

As far as your comment about being Jealous because Ivanhoe is so much stronger than Komodo I have to disagree with you on both points. Komodo in my testing is stronger than Ivanhoe, even at really fast games where the Ippo's are especially strong. This is even with the Robbo bases on. I think your comment is based on old data.

Ivanhoe has many features Komodo does not yet have such as database and MP and so we cannot compete on multi-core hardware (although that's not actually clear to me, since Komodo is stronger you need at least 2 cores to compete with Komodo.) I assume Ivanhoe will be stronger on 4 cores because on one core our development versions of Komodo only appears to be 20 or 30 ELO stronger than Ivanhoe. The fairest match would be Ivanhoe on 2 cores vs Komodo on 1 core.

According to Ed Shroeder, I would be a hypocrite if I implemented MP on Komodo because it's not my original idea, it would be plagiarism. Others have done it before me and it would only be valid if I gave shared authorship to whoever did the first MP stuff. But I'm going to do it anyway.

By the way, even though you think Komodo is a clone of Ivanhoe I am seeing that it is almost a full ply faster than Komodo and does about 50% more nodes per second! And yet is still manages to be stronger than Ivanhoe. Apparently I copied all the ideas and did such a bad job the program acts completely different and is stronger.

Code: Select all

Rank Name           Elo      +      -    games   score   oppo.   draws 
   1 kse-4319.15  3027.2   46.5   46.5     193   54.7%  3000.0   44.0% 
   2 ih946f       3000.0   46.5   46.5     193   45.3%  3027.2   44.0% 


      TIME       RATIO    log(r)     NODES    log(r)  ave DEPTH    GAMES   PLAYER
 ---------  ----------  --------  --------  --------  ---------  -------   -----------
    1.8512       1.000     0.000     2.643     0.000    16.5064      193   ih946f
    1.8742       1.012     0.012     1.758    -0.408    15.6743      193   kse-4319.15

Komodo stays with Ivanhoe? Complete and utter bullshit. This is the wildest crap I have ever heard. Maybe in your dreams.

Stop talking out of your @ss . I can't stand such cretinous, uninformed retorts.

[geots]

Don- I am believe it or not- pulling for Komodo in this match. Simply because of the great respect I have- and always will have- for Larry.


Best regards and no hard feelings,

gts

[Terry McCracken]

Don- I am believe it or not- pulling for Komodo in this match. Simply because of the great respect I have- and always will have- for Larry.


Best regards and no hard feelings,

gts

But not for Don...the actual programmer for komodo.