WCCC 2011 - Junior is the 2011 World Champion

[kranium]

Bob-

the point is:

Ippolit source code is here to stay...
it's clean, well-written, innovative, and extremely strong.
it's free, and the authors don't want/need any recognition for their work.

it's better code than Crafty, and especially important in the 'grand scheme of things'.
all or most major programs/authors are using it, studying it and learning from it...
it represents 'progress' while Crafty is a 'dinosaur'...you're just going to have to deal with that fact.

incessantly attacking them with no proof of wrongdoing (in an grand effort to discredit the source code, knowing all to well they are easy targets and will not defend themselves) is appalling.

that being said...i am done with this petty conversation.
it's clear to me that when faced with opposition, without an argument, your only recourse is to issue personal attacks.

[marcelk]

Never been any ACCA exclusions based on anything other than Geography, it is "American Computer Chess Assoiciation" you notice???

You might consult their rules. The word 'citizen' is explicit, in a phrasing that ironically is illegal in the country where the tournament was hosted.
In earlier editions Rybka played because of citizenship, not because of residency or geography. People on the same continent as Rybka but with a different passport were excluded.

[bob]

"It has been well established..."??? By YOU? You don't exactly count in the grand scheme of things, do you?

i prefer to leave the decision of 'who counts' and 'who doesn't count' to higher powers.
your propensity/need to do so, all the while insulting and belittling all who disagree with you speaks volumes, however...

taking note of your inflated ego: is there any room left (for anyone else) in your 'grand scheme of things' fantasy?

i.e. if you work feverishly enough discrediting and insulting everyone (as you certainly have been),
i'm sure you'll eventually reach your goal...and can be the sole participant!

How about at least using the truth every now and then. You said, and I quote

if you work feverishly enough discrediting and insulting everyone

So, you are saying EVERYONE is cheating, copying the code of others, and such? That is the ONLY POSSIBLE interpretation of your statement, because I have only had negative comments to make about those that are cheating, copying the work of others, and purporting it to be their original work. You do fit in that category, do you not? But hardly EVERYBODY. In fact, it seems that the cloners/copiers of the world are a small minority, not EVERYBODY...

[bob]

Bob-

the point is:

Ippolit source code is here to stay...
it's clean, well-written, innovative, and extremely strong.
it's free, and the authors don't want/need any recognition for their work.

it's better code than Crafty, and especially important in the 'grand scheme of things'.
all or most major programs/authors are using it, studying it and learning from it...
it represents 'progress' while Crafty is a 'dinosaur'...you're just going to have to deal with that fact.

incessantly attacking them with no proof of wrongdoing (in an grand effort to discredit the source code, knowing all to well they are easy targets and will not defend themselves) is appalling.

that being said...i am done with this petty conversation.
it's clear to me that when faced with opposition, without an argument, your only recourse is to issue personal attacks.

I hope you are "DONE". Because you are offering NOTHING here. Just because a strong open source program exists does NOT mean everyone should be cleared to copy that and start their development. If enough want a "clone division" feel free to start it. I don't want to participate. I have no problems competing with ONE ip* family member, IF the actual authors decide to enter the thing somewhere, and if it is examined carefully to be sure that it is not, as claimed, a Rybka RE with some Fruity changes added. I've seen Don state he does not want to compete in a clone tournament. I notice a big group of programmers that signed the original protest to the ICGA stating THEY didn't want to participate in tournaments with derivatives.

So "most" is a huge exaggeration when you talk about known authors...

[bob]

Never been any ACCA exclusions based on anything other than Geography, it is "American Computer Chess Assoiciation" you notice???

You might consult their rules. The word 'citizen' is explicit, in a phrasing that ironically is illegal in the country where the tournament was hosted.
In earlier editions Rybka played because of citizenship, not because of residency or geography. People on the same continent as Rybka but with a different passport were excluded.

You have to be a citizen in a country that is recognized as part of "the Americas"??? You consider that to be exclusionary? The original ACM events started as "The US computer chess championship." We later amended this to be "the North American computer chess championship" when we discovered potential entrants in Canada. It eventually became "the ACM International computer chess championship."

I don't consider it wrong to have a continental requirement. Everyone can do one. This argument makes absolutely no sense. Charles started the ACCA to offer an alternative for those that find it too odious to go to the ICGA events that are always in Europe (or worse) which is a long and expensive trip for people in the Americas.

I don't see any issue with the Rybka point. We have not done an event where we say "everyone welcome, except for entrants from Germany, the Netherlands, and Israel. This whole argument makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[marcelk]

Never been any ACCA exclusions based on anything other than Geography, it is "American Computer Chess Assoiciation" you notice???

You might consult their rules. The word 'citizen' is explicit, in a phrasing that ironically is illegal in the country where the tournament was hosted.
In earlier editions Rybka played because of citizenship, not because of residency or geography. People on the same continent as Rybka but with a different passport were excluded.

You have to be a citizen in a country that is recognized as part of "the Americas"???
You consider that to be exclusionary?

Yes, I consider that very much exclusionary. "Whites only" or "Not for people of color" is the same offense.

We can get into finer geographic details also. For example that with the reform of 2010-10-10 the country of the Netherlands has its location both in Europe and in central America, yet passport holders of this fine nation were rejected.

The obvious word games to play with that one are "part of the Americas" (as in "we also exclude Hawaii and Guam residents") or "recognized" (as in "the CIA factbook doesn't have the update yet"). Both these words aren't used in this rule. The word "citizen" is in it and doing that is illegal in the country where the tournament was hosted. A fact remains a fact, not matter how one "considers" it.

[marcelk]

BTW, everyone SHOULD read the thread you gave a link to. You might notice there was no "boycott" talk.

I pointed out several flaws.
(1) event too long
(2) event too expensive
(3) event not alternating between north america and europe as the original charter required.
(4) Holding the event in a location that was not exactly safe, due to hostilities between Israel and every Islamic country within missile range, including Iraq.

Not exactly the picture Peter was trying to paint, but then it is always better to read to see what went on exactly, anyway...

Peter was obviously willing to risk his marriage (1), bankruptcy (2), and his life (4) for Crafty. But not his dignity, what a shame indeed

[Rebel]

Mail whatever you want. You stop making dishonest statements such as "levy accused Vas of taking ideas" and you will stop seeing those rebuttals. Continue to make false statements, I will continue to point 'em out. What's good for the goose and all that...

I never said nor implied that Mr. Distortion.

It seems impossible to have a normal conversation with you about an urgent and fundamental issue that has made CC sick to the bone.

You know what? You are sounding like those parents in the 60's, whenever their teenager kid dropped the word "Beatles" or "Elvis" went berserk.

[Rebel]

Worrying about competitors being on the panel is quite silly. And it also seems quite strange since YOU wanted to be on there. And you wanted Chris to be on there. So can you POSSIBLY pick one side of the street and stay on it? You are waffle-city here. No programmers should be there. Chris should have been there. I wanted to be there but left when Chris was not accepted. Does that REALLY sound rational to you?

I left the Panel the moment I saw what kind of justice was going to take place, the ban of a vocal critical voice, first act of the Tribunal.

[Rebel]

"It has been well established..."??? By YOU? You don't exactly count in the grand scheme of things, do you?

i prefer to leave the decision of 'who counts' and 'who doesn't count' to higher powers.
your propensity/need to do so, all the while insulting and belittling all who disagree with you speaks volumes, however...

taking note of your inflated ego: is there any room left (for anyone else) in your 'grand scheme of things' fantasy?

i.e. if you work feverishly enough discrediting and insulting everyone (as you certainly have been),
i'm sure you'll eventually reach your goal...and can be the sole participant!

How about at least using the truth every now and then. You said, and I quote

if you work feverishly enough discrediting and insulting everyone

So, you are saying EVERYONE is cheating, copying the code of others, and such? That is the ONLY POSSIBLE interpretation of your statement, because I have only had negative comments to make about those that are cheating, copying the work of others, and purporting it to be their original work. You do fit in that category, do you not? But hardly EVERYBODY. In fact, it seems that the cloners/copiers of the world are a small minority, not EVERYBODY...

You are derailing a serious issue with your insults.

Relax and debate in a civilized way.