New Hiarcs 14

[Uri Blass]

I understand.
I also do not buy hiarcs but unlike you I am not complaining about the price because I know that I am not going to buy hiarcs14 also for 20$ because the playing strength(100 elo better than hiarcs13) is not high enough for me to justify it.

I also did not buy houdini and Komodo(houdini2.0 is not a clear improvement relative to houdini1.5 based on what I read and I saw no reason to buy it and for Komodo I still wait to see results of the MP version before deciding if to buy it)

[fern]

In fact I did not complain, but asked. It could be that I was wrong and 80 -sorry: 79.95- is not too much after all.
In these cases I do not complain: I just do not purchase.
Respect strength, you are right, that's the reason I say once and again that commercial programs cannot just offer engines but must give some extra things, as a new gui, services, etc.,.
If not, your reasoning is always demolishing.

Fern

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

80 bucks....Isn't too much?

fern

They also think it is too much and I guess that this is the reason that the price for hiarcs14 is only 79.95 bucks.

I believe that the price is more than 10$ only because people are not interested in ordering many copies and if they find somebody who is interested in
buying 100,000,000 copies of hiarcs14 for 1,000,000,000$ then they are going to make a deal with that person.

I checked CCRL 40/40 rating list for 1CPU 32-bit engines, and did not realize how far Hiarcs has fallen- or others have risen. An increase of 100 elo, which is doubtful- ie 90 is not 100- would still only put it with Rybka 3 and Stockfish 1.9.1! That's Stockfish 1.9.1. And it still trails 2 versions of Houdini, 3 versions of Komodo, 3 versions of Stockfish, 3 versions of Critter, 3 versions of RobboLito, around 25 or 30 versions of Ivanhoe, and Rybka 4.1. Some of these so old that no one even uses them any longer.

What this 100 point increase does, if it actually happens, is let Hiarcs pass its main competition of the last 15 years, Junior, Shredder and Fritz. And that is about it, unless you want to throw in Naum.

Other than the old standby, its "human-like" play, exactly what will it be advertised as and why you can't afford not to have it. For me, it's just not worth 3 or 4 times what Don and Larry asked for Komodo. I did not say I would or would not buy it, but I'm glad I'm not the one trying to sell it.


gts

Hi George,

In general you're making a lot of sense in your post Elo wise....

But still there is something that is called supporting the author and I am a big fan of it
Dr.D

Hi Dr.- I am a fan of supporting all the authors. You have to understand that I think at $39.95- possibly even $49.95, the above arguments all become moot. I am not saying it is not worth buying, but at the right price. Even if the price is a slight bit out of line, I say nothing. But this is just asking way too much from where I sit.

I have always been one of the main advocates of the statement, and may be the one who coined it: "If your decision as to whether or not to buy an engine depends on whether or not it can beat Houdini and Critter, no other engines would ever be sold."

Again, I cannot stress enough the fact it is not that they want you to buy it that is the issue with me- but rather the price they ask. I may have missed a version here or there, but I started with Hiarc 9 on the cd, and don't think I have missed a version since- tho I guess I could be wrong. I have always tried to support Mark- and I still do. No one on this forum has spent any more money with him than I have.

I said I still might even buy it, but I would be buying $40 or $50 of program, and I would be spending the other $30 or so to support him. But remember- support runs both ways: his customers to him and him to his customers.


Best,

george

Yes,the price is a bit off the grid here I'd say....
Dr.D

[Darkmoon]

80 bucks....Isn't too much?

fern

They also think it is too much and I guess that this is the reason that the price for hiarcs14 is only 79.95 bucks.

I believe that the price is more than 10$ only because people are not interested in ordering many copies and if they find somebody who is interested in
buying 100,000,000 copies of hiarcs14 for 1,000,000,000$ then they are going to make a deal with that person.

I checked CCRL 40/40 rating list for 1CPU 32-bit engines, and did not realize how far Hiarcs has fallen- or others have risen. An increase of 100 elo, which is doubtful- ie 90 is not 100- would still only put it with Rybka 3 and Stockfish 1.9.1! That's Stockfish 1.9.1. And it still trails 2 versions of Houdini, 3 versions of Komodo, 3 versions of Stockfish, 3 versions of Critter, 3 versions of RobboLito, around 25 or 30 versions of Ivanhoe, and Rybka 4.1. Some of these so old that no one even uses them any longer.

What this 100 point increase does, if it actually happens, is let Hiarcs pass its main competition of the last 15 years, Junior, Shredder and Fritz. And that is about it, unless you want to throw in Naum.

Other than the old standby, its "human-like" play, exactly what will it be advertised as and why you can't afford not to have it. For me, it's just not worth 3 or 4 times what Don and Larry asked for Komodo. I did not say I would or would not buy it, but I'm glad I'm not the one trying to sell it.


gts

Hi George,

In general you're making a lot of sense in your post Elo wise....

But still there is something that is called supporting the author and I am a big fan of it
Dr.D

Hi Dr.- I am a fan of supporting all the authors. You have to understand that I think at $39.95- possibly even $49.95, the above arguments all become moot. I am not saying it is not worth buying, but at the right price. Even if the price is a slight bit out of line, I say nothing. But this is just asking way too much from where I sit.

I have always been one of the main advocates of the statement, and may be the one who coined it: "If your decision as to whether or not to buy an engine depends on whether or not it can beat Houdini and Critter, no other engines would ever be sold."

Again, I cannot stress enough the fact it is not that they want you to buy it that is the issue with me- but rather the price they ask. I may have missed a version here or there, but I started with Hiarc 9 on the cd, and don't think I have missed a version since- tho I guess I could be wrong. I have always tried to support Mark- and I still do. No one on this forum has spent any more money with him than I have.

I said I still might even buy it, but I would be buying $40 or $50 of program, and I would be spending the other $30 or so to support him. But remember- support runs both ways: his customers to him and him to his customers.


Best,

george

Yes,the price is a bit off the grid here I'd say....
Dr.D

With Komodo seeking to break ground in development and charging around half the price upon expectation- I think an established chess engine needs to do more than just produce some elo strength -even if the engines within its field of competition are comparatively limited in strength- it hardly justifies another version without true innovation at $79.95 a pop.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

80 bucks....Isn't too much?

fern

They also think it is too much and I guess that this is the reason that the price for hiarcs14 is only 79.95 bucks.

I believe that the price is more than 10$ only because people are not interested in ordering many copies and if they find somebody who is interested in
buying 100,000,000 copies of hiarcs14 for 1,000,000,000$ then they are going to make a deal with that person.

I checked CCRL 40/40 rating list for 1CPU 32-bit engines, and did not realize how far Hiarcs has fallen- or others have risen. An increase of 100 elo, which is doubtful- ie 90 is not 100- would still only put it with Rybka 3 and Stockfish 1.9.1! That's Stockfish 1.9.1. And it still trails 2 versions of Houdini, 3 versions of Komodo, 3 versions of Stockfish, 3 versions of Critter, 3 versions of RobboLito, around 25 or 30 versions of Ivanhoe, and Rybka 4.1. Some of these so old that no one even uses them any longer.

What this 100 point increase does, if it actually happens, is let Hiarcs pass its main competition of the last 15 years, Junior, Shredder and Fritz. And that is about it, unless you want to throw in Naum.

Other than the old standby, its "human-like" play, exactly what will it be advertised as and why you can't afford not to have it. For me, it's just not worth 3 or 4 times what Don and Larry asked for Komodo. I did not say I would or would not buy it, but I'm glad I'm not the one trying to sell it.


gts

Hi George,

In general you're making a lot of sense in your post Elo wise....

But still there is something that is called supporting the author and I am a big fan of it
Dr.D

Hi Dr.- I am a fan of supporting all the authors. You have to understand that I think at $39.95- possibly even $49.95, the above arguments all become moot. I am not saying it is not worth buying, but at the right price. Even if the price is a slight bit out of line, I say nothing. But this is just asking way too much from where I sit.

I have always been one of the main advocates of the statement, and may be the one who coined it: "If your decision as to whether or not to buy an engine depends on whether or not it can beat Houdini and Critter, no other engines would ever be sold."

Again, I cannot stress enough the fact it is not that they want you to buy it that is the issue with me- but rather the price they ask. I may have missed a version here or there, but I started with Hiarc 9 on the cd, and don't think I have missed a version since- tho I guess I could be wrong. I have always tried to support Mark- and I still do. No one on this forum has spent any more money with him than I have.

I said I still might even buy it, but I would be buying $40 or $50 of program, and I would be spending the other $30 or so to support him. But remember- support runs both ways: his customers to him and him to his customers.


Best,

george

Yes,the price is a bit off the grid here I'd say....
Dr.D

With Komodo seeking to break ground in development and charging around half the price upon expectation- I think an established chess engine needs to do more than just produce some elo strength -even if the engines within its field of competition are comparatively limited in strength- it hardly justifies another version without true innovation at $79.95 a pop.

Agreed....

[S.Taylor]

80 bucks....Isn't too much?

fern

They also think it is too much and I guess that this is the reason that the price for hiarcs14 is only 79.95 bucks.

I believe that the price is more than 10$ only because people are not interested in ordering many copies and if they find somebody who is interested in
buying 100,000,000 copies of hiarcs14 for 1,000,000,000$ then they are going to make a deal with that person.

I checked CCRL 40/40 rating list for 1CPU 32-bit engines, and did not realize how far Hiarcs has fallen- or others have risen. An increase of 100 elo, which is doubtful- ie 90 is not 100- would still only put it with Rybka 3 and Stockfish 1.9.1! That's Stockfish 1.9.1. And it still trails 2 versions of Houdini, 3 versions of Komodo, 3 versions of Stockfish, 3 versions of Critter, 3 versions of RobboLito, around 25 or 30 versions of Ivanhoe, and Rybka 4.1. Some of these so old that no one even uses them any longer.


gts

Yes, but he has an added feat, doesn't he?
He does it all without knowing a thing about robolito etc!
Or does he?

[Norm Pollock]

If I understand right, Hiarcs 14 and Junior 13 are both out at about the same time and at the same price- 79.95 each. But which one, if either, is the so-called "world champion"? Certainly the one that is not the "world champion" should go for a little less, I think.

[pedrox]

If I understand right, Hiarcs 14 and Junior 13 are both out at about the same time and at the same price- 79.95 each. But which one, if either, is the so-called "world champion"? Certainly the one that is not the "world champion" should go for a little less, I think.

HIARCS - World Chess Software Champion 2011 (Equal hardware)

Junior - World Computer Chess Champion 2011 (Unlimited hardware)

[Sylwy]

But remember- support runs both ways: his customers to him and him to his customers.
Best,

george

Morning Maestro George !

Well , speaking a bit about commerce.
These days they are a lot of snow around my bunker ( and not only) , so I'm ready to found a new GmbH (or AG ) on a new & paceful domain : the commerce with snow. Listed in Hamburg bourse , of course !

About Hiarcs: I'm a legal customer of versions 10-11-12-13. Mark was always extremely kind: he gives to all existing customers a discount.
From his site :

"Please note discount emails have not yet been sent out. They will be sent immediately the new product is available. Existing www.hiarcs.com HIARCS 13 customer? - please check your email first, we have sent you a special customer discount for HIARCS 14, discounts cannot be applied retrospectively. If you have not received this email please contact us on first. "

http://www.hiarcs.com/pcucihow_to_buy.htm

I'll be for sure customer of Hiarcs 14 ! Because I love a lot this engine !
And Mark is a fine man !

So , just a bit of patience Maestro George !

Have a nice weekend !

Like bonus:

Romanian Carpathian Mountains in winter (Predeal):

[melajara]

So what? Hiarcs 14 will still lag by 150 to 200 (Bayes or standard) ELO from the current top.

I will be more impressed if Mark Uniacke did the improvement ONLY on his behalf but I very doubt it (but I would love to be proved wrong).

Most probably he had adapted some optimizations taken from StockFish or the Ippo bandwagon.

We'll have a hint at this if, as with Fritz, Hiarcs 14 style is converging towards the rock solid style of Houdini etc.