Now all matches are 30 games or more and scores:
Komodo 54,6%
Houdini 54,0%
Critter 49,6%
Rybka 46,7%
Stockfish 45,9%
So maybe Don is right - Komodo scales well! But Stockfish not even if that is also claimed..
Mythbuster continued
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...Houdini likes it French way
[/size]TimoK wrote:Hi Bram,
Komodo strikes back! In a very interesting game with unbalanced material it managed to win with black against Houdini.
In the beginning, Houdini made some strange moves (loss of tempo like Rh3 and shortly after Rh1 again). In this position, Komodo decides to give his queen and a pawn for two knights and a bishop:
Black plays 21. cxd4. That was the right decision because white's queen doesn't manage to make an impact in this closed position. However blacks pieces do and therefore black is able to strengthen his position.Code: Select all
1r1qrnk1/3b2b1/3pp1p1/1pp1n1Bp/1P1NP2P/2N2P2/P2Q2P1/3R1BKR b - - 0 21
Hi Timo,
After 38 games, and two nice last wins with French opening, the LTC results between Komodo4 and Houdini2.0C in your Clash of the Titans are pretty the same as in the 100 games match between both, on Blitz level (5min 5 sec, of ATOMICC chess by Brent M http://atomicc-testing.blogspot.com/201 ... sults.html)
So no further closing of the ELO gap (just 15-20 ELO) between them at very LTC, as has been suggested by the author of Komodo, can be observed. The difference stabilizes.
Same discussions we have had here in the past, where the Rybka fans stubbornly repeated for long time the same claims for Rybka 4 being much better than Houdini at LTC. After Houdini 1.5a winning the TCEC matches in a clear way and the rise of Komodo and the rumour over Rybka, these unproven claims finally became less heard.
The same counts for the claim for Stockfish being a program that also would scale better, can clearly not been found in the current results against all of his opponents. The only true thing that can be said is that Komodo doesn’t scale that good at bullet/blitz. Having said that, nevertheless, I would like to see and buy Komodo 5 MP because Komodo is a very good allround positionally playing program.
Lets see if Komodo can strike back again
grts Bram
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...Houdini likes it French way
Hi Bram,beram wrote: Hi Timo,
After 38 games, and two nice last wins with French opening, the LTC results between Komodo4 and Houdini2.0C in your Clash of the Titans are pretty the same as in the 100 games match between both, on Blitz level (5min 5 sec, of ATOMICC chess by Brent M http://atomicc-testing.blogspot.com/201 ... sults.html)
So no further closing of the ELO gap (just 15-20 ELO) between them at very LTC, as has been suggested by the author of Komodo, can be observed. The difference stabilizes.
Same discussions we have had here in the past, where the Rybka fans stubbornly repeated for long time the same claims for Rybka 4 being much better than Houdini at LTC. After Houdini 1.5a winning the TCEC matches in a clear way and the rise of Komodo and the rumour over Rybka, these unproven claims finally became less heard.
The same counts for the claim for Stockfish being a program that also would scale better, can clearly not been found in the current results against all of his opponents. The only true thing that can be said is that Komodo doesn’t scale that good at bullet/blitz. Having said that, nevertheless, I would like to see and buy Komodo 5 MP because Komodo is a very good allround positionally playing program.
Lets see if Komodo can strike back again
grts Bram
I agree with all you said. Houdini played two very nice games against Komodo in this French opening variation (C15) and managed to win this position with white and black:
[D]rn1q1rk1/pbp2ppp/1p2pb2/8/3P4/P3B3/1PPQNPPP/2KR1B1R w - - 0 11
Especially the game with Houdini as black was really interesting. Houdini played a few extremly good moves:
[D]1r3rk1/6pp/2b1pb2/p1p4q/PpP4P/1P1BBP2/K1Q3P1/3R3R b - - 0 24
Houdini played 24. ..Bxa4!!
After Komodos reaction (Bf4), Houdini played another great move: 25. ..Bxb3+! Houdini already evaluates the position as better for black knowing that the black pawns on the queenside are very strong.
[Event "Houdini-Komodo"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.03.14"]
[Round "38.1"]
[White "Komodo64 SSE Version 4"]
[Black "Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 [t=1]"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C15"]
[Annotator "0.15;0.06"]
[PlyCount "126"]
[EventDate "2012.03.05"]
{AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 905e Processor 2999 MHz W=26.3 plies; 1.025kN/s B=25.5
plies; 1.991kN/s; 3.509 TBAs} 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Nge2 dxe4 5. a3
Be7 6. Nxe4 Nf6 7. Nxf6+ Bxf6 8. Be3 O-O 9. Qd2 b6 10. O-O-O Bb7 11. Nf4 {0.15/
21 59} Nd7 {0.06/22 194 (Qe7)} 12. d5 {0.17/23 196} Nc5 {0.00/23 0} 13. dxe6 {
0.30/24 168 (Bc4)} Nxe6 {0.16/23 200} 14. Nxe6 {0.27/25 74} fxe6 {0.12/25 191
(Qxd2+)} 15. f3 {0.30/24 113} Qd5 {0.11/24 61 (Qxd2+)} 16. Kb1 {0.28/24 156} c5
{0.13/24 103 (Rad8)} 17. Qc1 {0.19/24 226 (Qe1)} Qh5 {0.02/23 253 (Qe5)} 18. h4
{0.35/23 138} Bd5 {0.06/24 56 (Rad8)} 19. c4 {0.15/24 187 (Bg5)} Bc6 {0.11/24
284} 20. Qc2 {0.06/26 849 (Bd3)} Rab8 {-0.07/23 204} 21. Ka2 {0.15/23 0 (a4)}
b5 {-0.18/22 213 (e5)} 22. b3 {0.00/22 158 (Bf4)} b4 {-0.07/24 1179} 23. Bd3 {
-0.05/25 0} a5 {-0.02/23 192 (Rb6)} 24. a4 {0.36/23 131} Bxa4 {0.05/23 132
(Kh8)} 25. Bf4 {0.14/23 193 (Bxh7+)} Bxb3+ {0.09/21 158} 26. Qxb3 {0.25/26 929}
a4 {-0.48/23 50} 27. Qb1 {0.30/22 8} Rb6 {-0.11/24 1000 (b3+)} 28. g4 {0.16/21
102 (Be4)} Qf7 {-0.98/20 127} 29. Bxh7+ {-0.79/21 398} Kh8 {-1.33/23 0} 30. Qg6
{-0.78/23 116} a3 {-1.37/22 0} 31. Kb3 {-0.93/26 234} a2 {-1.74/23 0 (Bd4)} 32.
Qxf7 {-1.07/23 157} Rxf7 {-1.83/25 174} 33. Be4 {-1.60/25 172 (Bg6)} Ra7 {-1.
74/26 116} 34. Be5 {-1.78/27 22} Ra3+ {-1.74/25 3} 35. Kc2 {-1.82/27 34} b3+ {
-1.86/27 252} 36. Kb2 {-2.00/31 34} a1=Q+ {-2.11/27 199} 37. Rxa1 {-2.02/32 56}
Rxa1 {-1.99/27 0} 38. Kxa1 {-1.78/31 359 (Rxa1)} Bxe5+ {-1.66/27 85} 39. Kb1 {
-1.84/32 91} Ra6 {-2.07/29 288} 40. Kc1 {-2.15/30 155} Ra1+ {-2.01/29 32} 41.
Bb1 {-2.05/28 139} Ra2 {-2.01/31 164} 42. Kd1 {-1.92/29 24} Rg2 {-2.02/31 274}
43. Bg6 {-2.01/31 174 (Ke1)} b2 {-2.09/28 135} 44. Ke1 {-2.25/28 7} Bg3+ {-2.
18/29 217} 45. Kf1 {-2.13/29 24} Rf2+ {-2.27/30 123} 46. Kg1 {-2.34/30 120} e5
{-2.27/31 230 (Rd2)} 47. h5 {-2.26/28 265 (Bb1)} Rd2 {-2.45/29 248} 48. Kf1 {
-2.25/29 235} Rd1+ {-2.50/28 0 (Kg8)} 49. Kg2 {-2.28/25 19} Rc1 {-2.58/28 222}
50. Rf1 {-2.55/28 85} Kg8 {-2.60/28 54} 51. g5 {-2.60/27 80 (Be4)} Bf4 {-3.10/
25 104} 52. Rf2 {-3.16/28 312 (Be4)} b1=R {-3.82/26 137 (b1Q)} 53. Bxb1 {-3.16/
29 144} Rxb1 {-4.01/27 51} 54. g6 {-3.14/27 5} Kf8 {-3.95/27 85} 55. Ra2 {-3.
21/27 21} Rc1 {-4.09/27 140} 56. Kh3 {-3.18/26 87 (Ra7)} Rxc4 {-4.34/25 169}
57. Kg4 {-3.58/28 335 (Ra7)} Ke7 {-4.47/25 104} 58. Kf5 {-4.06/27 142 (Ra8)}
Kd6 {-4.69/23 21 (Rd4)} 59. Ra6+ {-3.93/23 9} Kd5 {-4.69/23 0} 60. Ra8 {-4.52/
28 87} Rc3 {-4.97/25 0 (Rd4)} 61. Kg4 {-4.55/30 100} Bh6 {-5.30/27 0 (Rd3)} 62.
Rh8 {-5.09/30 119} Rc4+ {-6.10/27 323 (Rb3)} 63. Kg3 {-5.52/28 59} Ke6 {-6.05/
25 0 (Rb4)} 0-1
I think this kind of opening position must be very comfortable for Houdini because it mangaged to win it also with white/black against Stockfish and with white against Critter and Rybka!
Best regards
Timo
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
hi Jouni,
now after 38-39 games
Houdini2.0 59,8% and Komodo4 53,8 %
So Houdini scales not that bad
grts Bram
now after 38-39 games
Houdini2.0 59,8% and Komodo4 53,8 %
So Houdini scales not that bad
grts Bram
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
Don and Larry have been quiet: either they have not found this thread or have started MP version testing
Jouni
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
Most probably they have serious problems with the MP version of KomodoJouni wrote:Don and Larry have been quiet: either they have not found this thread or have started MP version testing
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
Jouni wrote:Don and Larry have been quiet: either they have not found this thread or have started MP version testing
I think they are MP testing
Preliminary results by now:
Clash of the Titans by Timo Klaustermeyer Time controls 125min / 50 moves + (60min+5s) Ponder = ON
60 games Noomen testsuite 2011 30 pos Engines have 6 cores except in matches of Komodo4, 1 core
Fritz Benchmark for 1 thread: ~ 1900 kN/s
Code: Select all
Results after 388 of 480 games
HOUDINI:
Komodo4 Critter1.4 Stockfish2.2.2 Rybka 4.1 total
25,5 25,5 30 27,5 108,5 points
48 47 48 49 192 games
53,1 54,2 62,5 56,1 56,5 %
KOMODO:
Houdini2.0C Critter1.4 Stockfish2.2.2 Rybka 4.1 total
22,5 25,5 25,5 30 103,5 points
48 48 49 51 196 games
46,9 53,1 52,0 58,8 52,8 %
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
No, Don is running his 6 sec/12 sec/24 sec/48 sec... test matches to prove scientifically that Komodo 4 overtakes Houdini at long time control.beram wrote:I think they are MP testing
Robert
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
Hi Doc, I don't think so. I think they already have a relatively good MP version but i think they have serious problems to find some improvements that allow them to overtake (for real) Houdini and i don't think they will release anything untill they will reach this goal.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:Most probably they have serious problems with the MP version of KomodoJouni wrote:Don and Larry have been quiet: either they have not found this thread or have started MP version testing
Dr.D
Best Regards
MM
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Re: Mythbuster continued ...but Komodo comes back
Ok, I know my test is statistically insufficiant, but after the games that have been played I'm strongly under the impression that Houdini has no scaling problem at all. So I wonder if Don will find any TC where Komodo 4 scores better than Houdini 2...Houdini wrote:No, Don is running his 6 sec/12 sec/24 sec/48 sec... test matches to prove scientifically that Komodo 4 overtakes Houdini at long time control.beram wrote:I think they are MP testing
Robert
But ok, let's wait for Komodo MP, maybe Don and Larry have improved it a bit more so Houdini will have an opponent on an equal footing.
Best regards
Timo