pichy wrote:Top engines without tablebases don't play the ending as good as top GMs. In this position from the game Tarrasch Vs E. Thorold most engines without tablebase will play or select to play 26. Re7+ and after the King move, Kd6 White will pick up the pawn 27.Rxg7, but after Black Rook take 27....Rxd4, then White take the other pawn at 28. Rxh7 and then Black will check ....Rd1+ 29. Kf2, Rd2+ 30.Kf3, Rxb2 and black will have a good drawing chances, his Rook being so active.
PS: But on this position Tarrasch played A star move! 26.Re3! in which White protects the important passed Pawn, While keeping the adverse Rook out.
[D]4R3/2k3pp/pp6/8/3r4/3P4/PP4PP/6K1 w - - 0 1
Interesting position, but I don't see what's wrong with 26.Re7+.
Houdini suggests the following main line:
pichy wrote:Top engines without tablebases don't play the ending as good as top GMs. In this position from the game Tarrasch Vs E. Thorold most engines without tablebase will play or select to play 26. Re7+ and after the King move, Kd6 White will pick up the pawn 27.Rxg7, but after Black Rook take 27....Rxd4, then White take the other pawn at 28. Rxh7 and then Black will check ....Rd1+ 29. Kf2, Rd2+ 30.Kf3, Rxb2 and black will have a good drawing chances, his Rook being so active.
PS: But on this position Tarrasch played A star move! 26.Re3! in which White protects the important passed Pawn, While keeping the adverse Rook out.
[D]4R3/2k3pp/pp6/8/3r4/3P4/PP4PP/6K1 w - - 0 1
Interesting position, but I don't see what's wrong with 26.Re7+.
Houdini suggests the following main line:
pichy wrote:Top engines without tablebases don't play the ending as good as top GMs. In this position from the game Tarrasch Vs E. Thorold most engines without tablebase will play or select to play 26. Re7+ and after the King move, Kd6 White will pick up the pawn 27.Rxg7, but after Black Rook take 27....Rxd4, then White take the other pawn at 28. Rxh7 and then Black will check ....Rd1+ 29. Kf2, Rd2+ 30.Kf3, Rxb2 and black will have a good drawing chances, his Rook being so active.
PS: But on this position Tarrasch played A star move! 26.Re3! in which White protects the important passed Pawn, While keeping the adverse Rook out.
[D]4R3/2k3pp/pp6/8/3r4/3P4/PP4PP/6K1 w - - 0 1
Interesting position, but I don't see what's wrong with 26.Re7+.
Houdini suggests the following main line:
Terry McCracken wrote:Are you serious? Kasparov use to play these simple positions in his sleep, so did many of the elite past and present.
How many super grandmasters post here? None?
To advance the discussion beyond a shouting contest, let's discuss the "Tarrasch" point of view that Re3 is superior to Re7+, a view that is not shared by Houdini.
Can you explain the following:
1) How does white win after 1.Re3 if black replies Kd6 and Rd5.
2) How does black have "good drawing chances" after 1.Re7+ Kd6 2.Rxg7 Rxd3 3.h4 Rd1+ 4.Kh2 Rd2 5.Rxh7 Rxb2 6.h5 - Houdini thinks that the final position is a straightforward win for white.
Terry McCracken wrote:Are you serious? Kasparov use to play these simple positions in his sleep, so did many of the elite past and present.
How many super grandmasters post here? None?
To advance the discussion beyond a shouting contest, let's discuss the "Tarrasch" point of view that Re3 is superior to Re7+, a view that is not shared by Houdini.
Can you explain the following:
1) How does white win after 1.Re3 if black replies Kd6 and Rd5.
2) How does black have "good drawing chances" after 1.Re7+ Kd6 2.Rxg7 Rxd3 3.h4 Rd1+ 4.Kh2 Rd2 5.Rxh7 Rxb2 6.h5 - Houdini thinks that the final position is a straightforward win for white.
Robert
I think players tend to "over-romanticize" top players. When I was a kid I read books that made it seem like these guys were practically god's.
We have the ELO system which does a fair job of quantifying the skills of the top players and hopefully that demystifies them somewhat. But whether people like it or not, computers have passed them (and it's been a few years already) and the gap will only get wider.
Don
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.
Terry McCracken wrote:Are you serious? Kasparov use to play these simple positions in his sleep, so did many of the elite past and present.
How many super grandmasters post here? None?
To advance the discussion beyond a shouting contest, let's discuss the "Tarrasch" point of view that Re3 is superior to Re7+, a view that is not shared by Houdini.
Can you explain the following:
1) How does white win after 1.Re3 if black replies Kd6 and Rd5.
2) How does black have "good drawing chances" after 1.Re7+ Kd6 2.Rxg7 Rxd3 3.h4 Rd1+ 4.Kh2 Rd2 5.Rxh7 Rxb2 6.h5 - Houdini thinks that the final position is a straightforward win for white.
Robert
2) The main line, according with Houdini 2.0c, is broken:
Terry McCracken wrote:Are you serious? Kasparov use to play these simple positions in his sleep, so did many of the elite past and present.
How many super grandmasters post here? None?
To advance the discussion beyond a shouting contest, let's discuss the "Tarrasch" point of view that Re3 is superior to Re7+, a view that is not shared by Houdini.
Can you explain the following:
1) How does white win after 1.Re3 if black replies Kd6 and Rd5.
2) How does black have "good drawing chances" after 1.Re7+ Kd6 2.Rxg7 Rxd3 3.h4 Rd1+ 4.Kh2 Rd2 5.Rxh7 Rxb2 6.h5 - Houdini thinks that the final position is a straightforward win for white.
Robert
I think players tend to "over-romanticize" top players. When I was a kid I read books that made it seem like these guys were practically god's.
We have the ELO system which does a fair job of quantifying the skills of the top players and hopefully that demystifies them somewhat. But whether people like it or not, computers have passed them (and it's been a few years already) and the gap will only get wider.
Don
When a computer can pose, on it's own, a top Endgame Study then I'll concur.
Terry McCracken wrote:Are you serious? Kasparov use to play these simple positions in his sleep, so did many of the elite past and present.
How many super grandmasters post here? None?
To advance the discussion beyond a shouting contest, let's discuss the "Tarrasch" point of view that Re3 is superior to Re7+, a view that is not shared by Houdini.
Can you explain the following:
1) How does white win after 1.Re3 if black replies Kd6 and Rd5.
2) How does black have "good drawing chances" after 1.Re7+ Kd6 2.Rxg7 Rxd3 3.h4 Rd1+ 4.Kh2 Rd2 5.Rxh7 Rxb2 6.h5 - Houdini thinks that the final position is a straightforward win for white.
Robert
Kasparov said he doesn't understand, given the position.
i see you quickly edited your post....anyway i wonder which engine are you using because.....
