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Don Dailey

Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 4320

Post subject: Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am

Uri Blass wrote:
Don wrote:
gerold wrote:
 Daniel Shawul wrote: http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8047 King's gambit "weakly solved" by Vas. Admit it. This guy definately knows what he does

Solved is the wrong word. Maybe the best move the computer could come up with is more like it.

This whole thing comes down to the validity of the assumption that if Rybka scores 5.12 or more, it is a win with 99.99999999% certainty and that it follows that this happens to be the same certainty for the entire results.

I really have a difficult time with both those assumptions and I want to know how he came up with that value. This is about 1 in 10 billion positions! That means if you sacrifice a queen, or a rook plus a pawn or two that you automatically lose (except once every 10,000,000,000 times.)

I understand that it was a joke but I disagree with your conclusions that almost no big sacrifice works because in theory it is possible that the evaluation of Rybka may give less than 5.12 in case that you sacrifice a queen or a rook and pawns and has a compensation.

My point isn't the exact amount of the material for the sacrifice, it's that short of actual mate programs cannot reliably determine if the position is going to be a win. At least not with anything even close to 99.99999999 percent certainty.
 Quote: I do not know about evaluation that does it but basically programmers may take a pgn of millions games and analyze every position by static evaluation and by search of 1 second. After the process we are going to find positions when the static evaluation is more than 5.12 and the better side is not winning based on search and include also positions from games when the better side is not winning based on human knowledge. Then the programmer may start to work to determine evaluation rules to force these positions to get less than 5.12(because the side that seems to lose has mate chances or other chances that the evaluation should evaluate).

Such a process sounds logical but it's much more difficult than you think. We have done things very similar to that before where we identify bad evaluation in an attempt to improve it and it can help guide you, but generally whatever you fix breaks something else.
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"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons." -Kang and Kodos
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Subject Author Date/Time
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:15 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:27 pm
Julien MARCEL Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 pm
Jimmy Huggins Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:42 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:46 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:59 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:30 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:07 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:39 pm
Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:04 pm
Andranik Khachatryan Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:31 pm
Jouni Uski Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:38 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:51 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 pm
Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:35 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:59 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:06 pm
Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:29 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:56 pm
Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:26 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:34 pm
Jef Kaan Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:17 am
Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:22 am
Jef Kaan Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:47 am
Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:53 am
Sam Hamilton Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:21 am
Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:02 am
Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:06 am
Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:32 am
Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:40 am
Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 pm
Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:30 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:00 pm
Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:08 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:30 pm
Rein Halbersma Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:23 pm
Rein Halbersma Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:46 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:02 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:10 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:29 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:34 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:50 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:59 pm
Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:15 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:22 pm
Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:40 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:51 pm
Dan Honeycutt Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:38 am
Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:17 am
Dan Honeycutt Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:21 pm
Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:42 pm
Dan Honeycutt Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:00 pm
Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:10 pm
Terry McCracken Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:51 pm
Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:10 pm
Miguel A. Ballicora Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:15 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:54 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:30 pm
Marco Costalba Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:40 am
Mark Mason Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:46 am
Daniel Shawul Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:08 am
Mark Mason Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:37 am
Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:22 am
Mark Mason Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:28 am
Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:19 pm
Daniel Shawul Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:03 am
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:09 pm
Carl Bicknell Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:16 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:37 pm
Albert Silver Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:31 pm
Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:41 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:37 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:32 pm
gerold daniels Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:56 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:33 pm
Miguel A. Ballicora Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:45 pm
Julien MARCEL Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:59 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:50 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:34 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:58 pm
Miguel A. Ballicora Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:47 pm
Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:52 pm
Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:55 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:02 pm
Adam Hair Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:05 am
Uri Blass Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:00 am
Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am
Rodolfo Leoni Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:11 pm
Uri Blass Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:51 pm
Vincent Diepeveen Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:42 am
Thorsten Czub Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:44 am
Marco Costalba Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:59 pm
Alex Newman Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:22 pm
Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:51 pm
Gunnar Harms Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:59 pm
Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:01 pm
Gunnar Harms Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:13 pm
Miguel A. Ballicora Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:50 pm
Jorge Pichard Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:37 am
Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:44 pm
Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:04 pm
Ian Osgood Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:53 pm
Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:53 pm
George Speight Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:11 pm
Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:15 pm
Don Dailey Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:38 pm
Sam Hamilton Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:45 pm
Vincent Diepeveen Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:46 pm
Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:12 pm
Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:09 am
Mark Mason Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:52 am
Albert Silver Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:28 pm
gerold daniels Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:00 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:29 pm
Albert Silver Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:08 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:30 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:16 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:31 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:53 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:15 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:21 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:29 pm
Brent M Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:47 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:09 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:48 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:06 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:36 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:54 pm
Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:03 pm
Uri Blass Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:36 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:57 pm
Uri Blass Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:54 am
Daniel Shawul Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:17 am
Vincent Diepeveen Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:56 am
Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:00 pm
George Speight Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:24 am

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