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Luke skywalker has done it again.
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Don Dailey



Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 4320
PostPost subject: Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.    Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
Uri Blass wrote:
Don wrote:
gerold wrote:
Daniel Shawul wrote:
http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8047

King's gambit "weakly solved" by Vas. Admit it. This guy definately knows what he does Smile


Solved is the wrong word. Maybe the best move the computer could come up with is more like it. Smile


This whole thing comes down to the validity of the assumption that if Rybka scores 5.12 or more, it is a win with 99.99999999% certainty and that it follows that this happens to be the same certainty for the entire results.

I really have a difficult time with both those assumptions and I want to know how he came up with that value. This is about 1 in 10 billion positions! That means if you sacrifice a queen, or a rook plus a pawn or two that you automatically lose (except once every 10,000,000,000 times.)


I understand that it was a joke but I disagree with your conclusions that almost no big sacrifice works because in theory it is possible that the evaluation of Rybka may give less than 5.12 in case that you sacrifice a queen or a rook and pawns and has a compensation.


My point isn't the exact amount of the material for the sacrifice, it's that short of actual mate programs cannot reliably determine if the position is going to be a win. At least not with anything even close to 99.99999999 percent certainty.
Quote:


I do not know about evaluation that does it but basically programmers may take a pgn of millions games and analyze every position by static evaluation and by search of 1 second.

After the process we are going to find positions when the static evaluation is more than 5.12 and the better side is not winning based on search and include also positions from games when the better side is not winning based on human knowledge.

Then the programmer may start to work to determine evaluation rules
to force these positions to get less than 5.12(because the side that seems to lose has mate chances or other chances that the evaluation should evaluate).


Such a process sounds logical but it's much more difficult than you think. We have done things very similar to that before where we identify bad evaluation in an attempt to improve it and it can help guide you, but generally whatever you fix breaks something else.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:15 pm
      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:27 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Julien MARCEL Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Jimmy Huggins Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:42 pm
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:46 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:59 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:30 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:07 pm
                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:39 pm
                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:04 pm
                                                Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Andranik Khachatryan Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:31 pm
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Jouni Uski Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:38 pm
                                                            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:51 pm
                                                            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 pm
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:35 pm
                                                Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 pm
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:59 pm
                                                            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:06 pm
                                                                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:29 pm
                                                                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:56 pm
                                                                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:26 pm
                                                                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Jef Kaan Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:17 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:22 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Jef Kaan Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:47 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:53 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Sam Hamilton Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:21 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:02 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:06 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:32 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:40 am
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Dan Honeycutt Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:30 pm
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:00 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:08 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:30 pm
                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Rein Halbersma Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:23 pm
                                                Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Rein Halbersma Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:46 pm
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:02 pm
                                                            More Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:10 pm
                                                                  Re: More Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:29 pm
                                                                        Re: More Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:34 pm
                                                                              Re: More Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:50 pm
                                                                                    Re: More Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:59 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:22 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:40 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Dan Honeycutt Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:38 am
                                                                                          Re: More Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:17 am
                                                                                          Re: More Dan Honeycutt Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:42 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Dan Honeycutt Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Terry McCracken Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: More Miguel A. Ballicora Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:15 pm
                                                                  Even More Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:54 pm
                                                                        Re: Even More Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:30 pm
                                                                              Re: Even More Marco Costalba Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:40 am
                                                                                    Re: Even More Mark Mason Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:46 am
                                                                                          Re: Even More Daniel Shawul Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:08 am
                                                                                          Re: Even More Mark Mason Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:37 am
                                                                                          Re: Even More Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:22 am
                                                                                          Re: Even More Mark Mason Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:28 am
                                                                                          Re: Even More Daniel Shawul Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:19 pm
                                                                                    Re: Even More Daniel Shawul Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:03 am
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:09 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Carl Bicknell Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:16 pm
                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:37 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Albert Silver Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:39 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:31 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:41 pm
      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:37 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:32 pm
      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. gerold daniels Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:56 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:33 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Miguel A. Ballicora Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:45 pm
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Julien MARCEL Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:59 pm
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:50 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:34 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:58 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Miguel A. Ballicora Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:47 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:52 pm
                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:55 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:02 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Adam Hair Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:05 am
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Uri Blass Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:00 am
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Rodolfo Leoni Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:11 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Uri Blass Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:51 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Vincent Diepeveen Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:42 am
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Thorsten Czub Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:44 am
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Marco Costalba Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:59 pm
      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Alex Newman Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:22 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:51 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Gunnar Harms Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:59 pm
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Ricardo Barreira Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:01 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Gunnar Harms Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:13 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Miguel A. Ballicora Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:50 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Jorge Pichard Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:37 am
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Graham Banks Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:44 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:04 pm
      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Ian Osgood Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:53 pm
            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:53 pm
                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. George Speight Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:11 pm
                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:15 pm
                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Don Dailey Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:38 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Sam Hamilton Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:45 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Vincent Diepeveen Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:46 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:12 pm
                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:09 am
                                                Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Mark Mason Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:52 am
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Albert Silver Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:28 pm
                                                            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. gerold daniels Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:00 pm
                                                            Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:29 pm
                                                                  Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Albert Silver Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:08 pm
                                                                        Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:30 pm
                                                                              Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:16 pm
                                                                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:53 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:29 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Brent M Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:09 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:36 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:54 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Terry McCracken Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Uri Blass Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:36 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:57 pm
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Uri Blass Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:54 am
                                                                                          Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Daniel Shawul Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:17 am
                                                Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Vincent Diepeveen Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:56 am
                                                      Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. Julien MARCEL Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:00 pm
                                    Re: Luke skywalker has done it again. George Speight Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:24 am
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