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We should reconsider the value of the Queen.................
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Ronald de Man



Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Posts: 915
PostPost subject: Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen.............    Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:14 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
pichy wrote:
Some of you might be correct and I am not saying that the value of the Queen is too high, all that I am saying is that after the middlegame around move 40 or starting the endgame the value of the Queen disminish and it should not be left with the same value throughout the game.
The relative value of pieces changes as a game progresses to the endgame. The relative value of pawns and rooks may increase, and the value of bishops may increase also, though usually to a lesser extent. The knight tends to lose some power, and the strength of the queen may be slightly lessened, as well.

Modern engines do not evaluate material by assigning each piece a fixed value and summing, but use complicated weightings to deal with imbalances.

Assuming you are correct about two rooks vs a queen (which I don't doubt, but I am not a good enough chess player to confirm it) and those engines are well-tuned, their evaluations will more and more favor the side with two rooks compared to the side with a queen as more material is removed from the board. In this way, there is also no need to artificially distinguish between middle game and end game at exactly 40 moves (or any other fixed number): the material that is still on the board decides what phase the game is in.

What is very nice about this approach is that an engine playing with two rooks against a queen will actively seek to trade down material (since that will increase its evaluation), while an engine playing with a queen against two rooks will attempt to avoid exchanges of material.

On the other hand, your suggestion of how to implement the rules you propose will only bump the evaluation of the side with two rooks after 40 moves have been played, whether that side trades down or not. Effectively, it will only tell the side with two rooks to avoid a draw by repetition. It will not tell the engine that trading down is good or bad.
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Subject Author Date/Time
We should reconsider the value of the Queen................. Jorge Pichard Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:17 pm
      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. H.G.Muller Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:29 pm
            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:32 pm
                  Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. H.G.Muller Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:35 pm
                        Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:10 pm
                  Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. S.Taylor Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:53 pm
      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Graham Banks Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:10 pm
            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:40 pm
            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Lucas Braesch Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:06 am
                  Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:30 am
                        Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. André Lopez Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:09 am
                              Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Terry McCracken Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:15 am
                              Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:31 am
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Terry McCracken Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:01 pm
                              Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Matthew R. Brades Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:28 am
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:06 am
                                          Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:31 am
                                                Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:34 am
                                                      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Guenther Simon Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:45 am
                                                            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:05 pm
                              Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Sven Schüle Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:39 pm
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:50 pm
                                          Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Sven Schüle Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:26 pm
                                                Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:37 am
                                                      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Ronald de Man Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:14 am
                                                            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:50 am
                                                                  Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Ronald de Man Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:50 am
                                                                        Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:51 am
                                          Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Adam Hair Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:28 pm
                                                Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:47 pm
                                                      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:24 pm
                                                            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Guenther Simon Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:08 pm
                                                                  Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:20 pm
                                                                  Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:40 pm
                                                                        Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Sven Schüle Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:35 pm
                                                                              Re: Here is my ending game Vs Komodo.................... Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:36 pm
                                                                                    Re: Here is my ending game Vs Komodo.................... Sven Schüle Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:30 pm
                                                                                          Re: Here is my ending game Vs Komodo.................... Jorge Pichard Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:42 pm
                                                      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Adam Hair Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:26 am
                                                            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:46 pm
                              Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Vincent Diepeveen Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:56 pm
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. H.G.Muller Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:32 pm
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:04 pm
                              Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Maurizio Maglio Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:55 pm
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jimmy Huggins Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:12 pm
                                          Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:03 pm
                                    Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. André Lopez Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:40 am
      Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Richard Sutherland Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:47 pm
            Re: We should reconsider the value of the Queen............. Jorge Pichard Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:08 pm
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