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Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NOW...
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Jorge Pichard



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 2557
PostPost subject: Re: Larry here are some games Mr. Habu Vs GPS-Shogi    Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:26 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
lkaufman wrote:
Here is how I see the situation. First, Mr. Yonenaga is no longer on a par with Moriuchi or Habu or Watanabe (the top 3), but to compare his shogi level to David Levy in chess is ridiculous. Based on his level when he retired and the amount of time since then, I would expect that he plays about the level of the bottom class of pros, which is to say at the same level as the very best of amateurs. So clearly still "grandmaster" standard, but not Elite grandmaster standard in chess parlance. By the way, Karpov still plays at Grandmaster level, just not elite level. I'm sure I would be no match for Karpov even now, and I earned the GM title 3 years ago and have not declined appreciably yet. Okay, I'm a pretty weak GM, but still...
To define when a computer reaches the level of the top 3 pros, you must specify the time limit. I think it is quite likely that Bonkras is already on a par with the top 3 at 30" per move, the fastest time limit used in any televised "rapid" games. At 3 hours per side (plus 1 minute per move thereafter), a fairly typical "pro" time limit, I think it will happen between 1 and 2 years from now; one mid-level pro told me he thinks Bonkras would already beat him at such a time limit. At 9 hours per side (plus 1 min) over two days, the "meijin" time limit, maybe we need 3 more years.
I propose we define 3 hours plus 1 minute as the time limit for purposes of talking about relative strength of human and computer in shogi.
Finally I'll say that by the end of the decade, pros will need to take a lance handicap from the best engine to have any chance of victory, just as they need pawn handicap in chess to have such a chance now.


Mr. Kaufman, herfe are some games played between Mr. Habu vs GPS Shogi 2 years ago which you can evaluate, but I am pretty sure that Bonkras using Parallel clusters at game in 30 minutes can give Mr. Habu a hell of a challenge Rolling Eyes


http://wdoor.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/shogi/view/2010/10/25/wdoor+floodgate-9000-45+habu+GPSShogi_X5470_8c+20101025190007.csa

http://wdoor.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/shogi/view/2010/10/25/wdoor+floodgate-9000-45+habu+GPSShogi_X5470_8c+20101025190007.csa

http://wdoor.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/shogi/view/2010/10/26/wdoor+floodgate-9000-45+GPSShogi_X5470_8c+habu+20101026130005.csa

http://wdoor.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/shogi/view/2010/10/20/wdoor+floodgate-9000-45+habu+GPSShogi_X5470_8c+20101020190007.csa
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Subject Author Date/Time
Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NOW... Jorge Pichard Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:18 pm
      Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Tue May 01, 2012 4:21 pm
            Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Tue May 01, 2012 4:59 pm
                  Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Dan Honeycutt Tue May 01, 2012 6:10 pm
                  Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Tue May 01, 2012 7:07 pm
                        Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Tue May 01, 2012 7:24 pm
                              Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Tue May 01, 2012 8:57 pm
                                    Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Tue May 01, 2012 9:16 pm
                                    Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Tue May 01, 2012 9:17 pm
                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Tue May 01, 2012 9:38 pm
                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Tue May 01, 2012 9:47 pm
                                                Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Tue May 01, 2012 10:06 pm
                                                      Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Tue May 01, 2012 10:44 pm
                                                      Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Sun May 06, 2012 5:30 pm
                                                            Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Sun May 06, 2012 6:46 pm
                                                                  Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Sun May 06, 2012 7:45 pm
                                                                        Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Sun May 06, 2012 7:56 pm
                                                                              Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Sun May 06, 2012 9:45 pm
                                                                                    Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Sun May 06, 2012 10:11 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Sun May 06, 2012 11:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Sun May 06, 2012 11:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Mon May 07, 2012 12:44 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Mon May 07, 2012 2:51 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Mon May 07, 2012 3:28 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Mon May 07, 2012 3:56 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Mon May 07, 2012 10:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 11:00 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 11:51 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Mon May 07, 2012 4:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 4:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Mon May 07, 2012 8:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 9:01 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry are you installing GPSUSI correctly? Jorge Pichard Mon May 07, 2012 10:07 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry are you installing GPSUSI correctly? Larry Kaufman Tue May 08, 2012 12:15 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry are you installing GPSUSI correctly? Larry Kaufman Tue May 08, 2012 12:22 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry what version of your GPSShogi you installed? Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 2:05 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry what version of your GPSShogi you installed? Larry Kaufman Tue May 08, 2012 2:21 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry you can play with this Shogi Server NOW! Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 2:31 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry you can play with this Shogi Server NOW! Bernhard Maerz Tue May 08, 2012 11:29 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry you can play with this Shogi Server NOW! Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 1:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry what version of your GPSShogi you installed? Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 2:59 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry what version of your GPSShogi you installed? H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 7:58 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry , I believe that I found your problem! Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 4:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry , I believe that I found your problem! H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 5:32 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry , I believe that I found your problem! Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 5:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry , I believe that I found your problem! H.G.Muller Wed May 09, 2012 8:19 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry this is what I did ............................... Jorge Pichard Thu May 10, 2012 1:10 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry this is what I did ............................... H.G.Muller Thu May 10, 2012 6:40 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry this is what I did ............................... Bernhard Maerz Thu May 10, 2012 6:54 am
                                                                                          Re: Larry this is what I did ............................... H.G.Muller Thu May 10, 2012 10:05 am
                                                                                          Re: How strong is your sdk09s Shogi engine? Jorge Pichard Thu May 10, 2012 11:17 am
                                                                                          Re: How strong is your sdk09s Shogi engine? H.G.Muller Thu May 10, 2012 11:33 am
                                                                                          Re: How strong is your sdk09s Shogi engine? Bernhard Maerz Thu May 10, 2012 12:28 pm
                                                                                          Re: How strong is your sdk09s Shogi engine? H.G.Muller Thu May 10, 2012 12:50 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Jorge Pichard Mon May 07, 2012 5:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: Larry Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NOW Jorge Pichard Thu May 10, 2012 11:54 pm
                                                                                          Re: Polish amateur first to beat professional shogi player Jorge Pichard Mon May 21, 2012 12:22 am
                        Re: Yonenaga is still a very high Shogi player.............. Jorge Pichard Mon May 07, 2012 11:42 pm
                              Re: Yonenaga is still a very high Shogi player.............. Mark Schreiber Tue May 08, 2012 3:08 pm
                                    Re: Yonenaga is still a very high Shogi player.............. Jorge Pichard Tue May 08, 2012 3:21 pm
      Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Thu May 03, 2012 12:20 am
            Re: Larry here are some games Mr. Habu Vs GPS-Shogi Jorge Pichard Thu May 03, 2012 3:26 pm
                  Re: Larry here are some games Mr. Habu Vs GPS-Shogi Mark Schreiber Fri May 04, 2012 7:04 pm
            Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Mark Schreiber Fri May 04, 2012 6:44 pm
                  Re: Larry I believe that Bonkras can beat the Shogi Champ NO Larry Kaufman Fri May 04, 2012 9:34 pm
      Links to computer shogi forums Graham Banks Fri May 04, 2012 7:28 pm
            Re: Links to computer shogi forums Jorge Pichard Sat May 05, 2012 7:33 am
                  Re: I prefer the Chess Thinkers Forum Jorge Pichard Sat May 05, 2012 7:34 am
                        Re: Links to computer shogi forums Graham Banks Sat May 05, 2012 7:37 am
                        Re: I prefer the Chess Thinkers Forum Jorge Pichard Sat May 05, 2012 1:36 pm
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