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When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?
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Ed Schroder



Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 1615
PostPost subject: Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments?    Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:41 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
Mike S. wrote:
As someone who is not a scientific expert of the similarity tool test methodics, I would like to ask:

Is this method capable (enough) to spot differences of search code, not of evaluation only?

Especially the fact that the calculation times per position were varied (*) depending on the engine's strenghts, has led me to the assumption that the difference of search quality and -effectiveness cannot be found, that way.

*) As found in the very comprehensive documentation on your website, thanks! Anyone interested in this matter should take a look at that, at least.

I mean, if "similarity" is simplified down to a percentage of X%, it suggests an "overall" identity of X%. But depending on the testing method, it could be that only some parts are X% similar while other parts, which the testing method may fail to spot, are much more different...

Adam has tried various time controls and the overall picture remains the same. In my own testings I deliberately use 0.1 second just to do it different than Adam to test the reliability of the system and also here the picture doesn't change much, small fluctuations of 1 to 1.5 percent.

One improvement I suggest is to run a second opinion test based on a fixed depth in suspect cases. A fixed depth will limit the influence of the search even more. As after all the similarity software is meant to measure the similarity of the evaluation function.

Another way to test similarity is the ponder-hit system. It's obvious disadvantage is the greater influence of the search as games (such as from CCRL and CEGT) are played at much longer time controls than 0.1 second and yet the ponder-hit system is telling the same story. I am referring to study of Kai Laskos here in CCC later used in the Soren Riis article at Chessbase.

Last edited by Ed Schroder on Sat May 05, 2012 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Subject Author Date/Time
When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Teodoriu Catalin Tue May 01, 2012 5:46 pm
      Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Tue May 01, 2012 6:21 pm
            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Teodoriu Catalin Tue May 01, 2012 6:56 pm
            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? S.Taylor Fri May 04, 2012 9:44 am
            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Fri May 04, 2012 12:34 pm
                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 6:20 pm
                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Fri May 04, 2012 6:58 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dr.Wael Deeb Fri May 04, 2012 7:25 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 7:38 pm
                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alexander Schmidt Fri May 04, 2012 7:48 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 8:10 pm
                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alexander Schmidt Fri May 04, 2012 8:31 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dr.Wael Deeb Fri May 04, 2012 8:48 pm
                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Fri May 04, 2012 8:20 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 8:43 pm
                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 9:47 am
                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Sat May 05, 2012 9:57 am
                                                Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Sat May 05, 2012 10:03 am
                                                Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am
                                                      Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Mike Scheidl Sat May 05, 2012 10:42 am
                                                            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 11:41 am
                                                                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Mike Scheidl Sat May 05, 2012 12:16 pm
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 6:45 pm
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Mike Scheidl Sun May 06, 2012 4:23 am
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sun May 06, 2012 5:46 am
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sun May 06, 2012 2:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Johan Havegheer Sun May 06, 2012 7:57 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Sun May 06, 2012 8:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sun May 06, 2012 9:30 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Richard Vida Sun May 06, 2012 11:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Neel Basant Mon May 07, 2012 3:40 am
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 am
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Neel Basant Mon May 07, 2012 9:02 am
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 07, 2012 2:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Sedat Canbaz Mon May 07, 2012 4:50 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? S.Taylor Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 am
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 07, 2012 2:23 pm
                                                      Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 11:42 am
                                                            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 12:08 pm
                                                                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 12:20 pm
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 3:41 pm
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 4:55 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 5:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Harvey Williamson Sat May 05, 2012 5:10 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sat May 05, 2012 5:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 5:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 5:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Harvey Williamson Sat May 05, 2012 6:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 6:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Harvey Williamson Sat May 05, 2012 6:16 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Sam Hamilton Sat May 05, 2012 6:07 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 6:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 6:28 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 6:46 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 7:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 7:22 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 8:42 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 8:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Sat May 05, 2012 7:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 7:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Damir Desevac Sat May 05, 2012 8:01 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Gabriel LEPERLIER Sat May 05, 2012 8:02 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Sat May 05, 2012 8:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 8:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Sat May 05, 2012 8:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ingo Bauer Sat May 05, 2012 8:23 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Harvey Williamson Sat May 05, 2012 8:26 pm
                                                                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Sam Hamilton Sat May 05, 2012 2:08 pm
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Sat May 05, 2012 2:35 pm
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Chris Whittington Sat May 05, 2012 2:46 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? George Speight Sun May 06, 2012 12:23 am
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 3:53 pm
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Albert Silver Sat May 05, 2012 4:02 pm
                                                                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sat May 05, 2012 2:55 pm
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sat May 05, 2012 3:04 pm
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 4:08 pm
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 05, 2012 3:04 pm
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Harvey Williamson Sat May 05, 2012 3:05 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Sat May 05, 2012 4:20 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alex Newman Sat May 05, 2012 5:16 pm
                                                                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? H.G.Muller Sat May 05, 2012 9:28 pm
                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Ed Schroder Fri May 04, 2012 8:38 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Fri May 04, 2012 8:44 pm
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dr. Peter Martan Sat May 05, 2012 3:24 am
                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Sat May 05, 2012 9:12 am
                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Teodoriu Catalin Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am
                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Engin Üstün Thu May 10, 2012 9:13 pm
                                                Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Engin Üstün Thu May 10, 2012 9:15 pm
                                                      Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Albert Silver Thu May 10, 2012 9:38 pm
                                                            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Thu May 10, 2012 9:48 pm
                                                                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Mike Scheidl Fri May 11, 2012 3:35 am
                                                                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 4:11 am
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Mike Scheidl Fri May 11, 2012 4:23 am
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 4:27 am
                                                                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alex Newman Fri May 11, 2012 5:11 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 6:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Graham Banks Fri May 11, 2012 6:40 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 6:46 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alex Newman Fri May 11, 2012 9:01 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 10:25 pm
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Fri May 11, 2012 7:39 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 7:44 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Fri May 11, 2012 7:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Don Dailey Fri May 11, 2012 8:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sat May 12, 2012 1:41 am
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Miguel A. Ballicora Sat May 12, 2012 6:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dan Honeycutt Sat May 12, 2012 6:53 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sat May 12, 2012 10:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Dan Honeycutt Sun May 13, 2012 12:39 am
                                                                                    Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Charles Roberson Sat May 12, 2012 2:02 am
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alex Newman Sat May 12, 2012 5:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Uri Blass Sat May 12, 2012 6:14 pm
                        Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Neel Basant Sat May 05, 2012 5:55 am
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Robert Houdart Sat May 05, 2012 9:18 am
                              Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? George Speight Mon May 07, 2012 5:21 pm
                  Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Sedat Canbaz Sun May 06, 2012 4:22 am
      Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? S.Taylor Sat May 05, 2012 11:08 pm
            Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Alex Brown Sat May 05, 2012 11:35 pm
      CSVN rules? Emil Vlasak Mon May 07, 2012 3:51 am
            Re: CSVN rules? Ed Schroder Mon May 07, 2012 4:22 am
                  Re: CSVN rules? Emil Vlasak Mon May 07, 2012 12:53 pm
                        Re: CSVN rules? Alex Newman Mon May 07, 2012 5:16 pm
                              Re: CSVN rules? Miguel A. Ballicora Mon May 07, 2012 5:44 pm
                              Re: CSVN rules? H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 5:44 pm
                                    Re: CSVN rules? Alex Newman Mon May 07, 2012 5:52 pm
                                          Re: CSVN rules? H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 5:56 pm
                                                Re: CSVN rules? Alex Newman Mon May 07, 2012 6:22 pm
                                                      Re: CSVN rules? H.G.Muller Mon May 07, 2012 6:27 pm
                        Re: CSVN rules? Ed Schroder Mon May 07, 2012 8:18 pm
                              Re: CSVN rules? Emil Vlasak Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 am
                                    Re: CSVN rules? H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 am
                                          Re: CSVN rules? Emil Vlasak Tue May 08, 2012 2:47 pm
                                                Re: CSVN rules? H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 4:03 pm
                                                      Re: CSVN rules? Alex Newman Tue May 08, 2012 5:36 pm
                                                            Re: CSVN rules? H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 5:54 pm
                                                                  Re: CSVN rules? Harvey Williamson Tue May 08, 2012 6:19 pm
                                                                        Re: CSVN rules? Mark Lefler Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 pm
                                                                        Re: CSVN rules? Don Dailey Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 am
                                                                              Re: CSVN rules? Harvey Williamson Wed May 09, 2012 11:31 am
                                                                                    Re: CSVN rules? Don Dailey Wed May 09, 2012 12:11 pm
                                                                                          Re: CSVN rules? Harvey Williamson Wed May 09, 2012 12:13 pm
                                                                                    Re: CSVN rules? Thorsten Czub Wed May 09, 2012 5:26 pm
                                                                              Re: CSVN rules? Thorsten Czub Wed May 09, 2012 5:24 pm
                                                                                    Re: CSVN rules? Don Dailey Wed May 09, 2012 5:29 pm
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