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Miguel A. Ballicora
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4424
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA
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 Post subject: Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:33 pm |
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| Uri Blass wrote: |
| Don wrote: |
| Uri Blass wrote: |
| I believe that random changes hurt komodo's playing strength and the same for other top programs but the question is how much and if people can start with something that is 50 elo weaker or 100 elo weaker than Ivanhoe only by some random modifications of the evaluation of IvanHoe and escape the similiarity test. |
If they have to give up 50 - 100 ELO it is a disincentive not to cheat but a cheater by his very nature doesn't want to give up any ELO. I should qualify that. Some cheat just because they cannot program and will be happy with a pretty weak program, but the more typical case I call the "Rosie Ruiz" style cheater.
But I don't think this weakening can easily fool the test because Doch through Komodo had well over 50 ELO due just to evaluation improvements which did not fool the test. This was a lot of weight changes and added terms.
It's surprising to me how resilient that test is to trickery - but I don't think we yet understand it's limits. It seems likely to me that it will have some weaknesses. |
I think that some of the tricks to fool the test may be to change the move generator.
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No chance that this could have an influence. The results are the same if the positions are re-shuffled and taken randomly, if different positions are used, or even if random positions are used from games. With all that, the influence of a move generator is completely discarded.
Miguel
| Quote: |
Imagine that Be2 and Bc2 have exactly the same score at every depth and are the 2 best move.
The choice if to play Be2 or Bc2 may be dependent on the move generator.
If the move generator generates first Be2 then Be2 may become the pv and if the move generator generates first Bc2 then Bc2 may become the pv.
programmers who do not like to change the move generator may change the program to change its mind at depth 1 if they have at least the same score and not if they have better score when the search at bigger depth is the same.
I wonder if you tested changes in the move generator to see if they help komodo or not. |
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| Subject |
Author |
Date/Time |
 When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Teodoriu Catalin |
Tue May 01, 2012 5:46 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Tue May 01, 2012 6:21 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Teodoriu Catalin |
Tue May 01, 2012 6:56 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
S.Taylor |
Fri May 04, 2012 9:44 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Fri May 04, 2012 12:34 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Fri May 04, 2012 6:20 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Fri May 04, 2012 6:58 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Fri May 04, 2012 7:25 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Fri May 04, 2012 7:38 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alexander Schmidt |
Fri May 04, 2012 7:48 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:10 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alexander Schmidt |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:31 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:48 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:20 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:43 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 9:47 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Sat May 05, 2012 9:57 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Sat May 05, 2012 10:03 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Mike Scheidl |
Sat May 05, 2012 10:42 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 11:41 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Mike Scheidl |
Sat May 05, 2012 12:16 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:45 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Mike Scheidl |
Sun May 06, 2012 4:23 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sun May 06, 2012 5:46 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sun May 06, 2012 2:27 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Johan Havegheer |
Sun May 06, 2012 7:57 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Sun May 06, 2012 8:24 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sun May 06, 2012 9:30 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Richard Vida |
Sun May 06, 2012 11:21 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Neel Basant |
Mon May 07, 2012 3:40 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Neel Basant |
Mon May 07, 2012 9:02 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Mon May 07, 2012 2:24 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Mon May 07, 2012 4:50 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
S.Taylor |
Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Mon May 07, 2012 2:23 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 11:42 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 12:08 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 12:20 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 3:41 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 4:55 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:06 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Harvey Williamson |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:10 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:16 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:24 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:55 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Harvey Williamson |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:00 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:14 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Harvey Williamson |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:16 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Sam Hamilton |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:07 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:25 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:28 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 6:46 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 7:10 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 7:22 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:42 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:48 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Sat May 05, 2012 7:47 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 7:58 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Damir Desevac |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:01 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Gabriel LEPERLIER |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:02 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:03 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:18 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:21 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ingo Bauer |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:23 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Harvey Williamson |
Sat May 05, 2012 8:26 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Sam Hamilton |
Sat May 05, 2012 2:08 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Sat May 05, 2012 2:35 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Chris Whittington |
Sat May 05, 2012 2:46 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
George Speight |
Sun May 06, 2012 12:23 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 3:53 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Albert Silver |
Sat May 05, 2012 4:02 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sat May 05, 2012 2:55 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sat May 05, 2012 3:04 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 4:08 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 05, 2012 3:04 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Harvey Williamson |
Sat May 05, 2012 3:05 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Sat May 05, 2012 4:20 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alex Newman |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:16 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
H.G.Muller |
Sat May 05, 2012 9:28 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Ed Schroder |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:38 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Fri May 04, 2012 8:44 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dr. Peter Martan |
Sat May 05, 2012 3:24 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Sat May 05, 2012 9:12 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Teodoriu Catalin |
Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Engin Üstün |
Thu May 10, 2012 9:13 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Engin Üstün |
Thu May 10, 2012 9:15 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Albert Silver |
Thu May 10, 2012 9:38 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Thu May 10, 2012 9:48 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Mike Scheidl |
Fri May 11, 2012 3:35 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 4:11 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Mike Scheidl |
Fri May 11, 2012 4:23 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 4:27 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alex Newman |
Fri May 11, 2012 5:11 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 6:25 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Graham Banks |
Fri May 11, 2012 6:40 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 6:46 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alex Newman |
Fri May 11, 2012 9:01 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 10:25 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Fri May 11, 2012 7:39 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 7:44 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Fri May 11, 2012 7:52 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Don Dailey |
Fri May 11, 2012 8:33 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sat May 12, 2012 1:41 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Sat May 12, 2012 6:33 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dan Honeycutt |
Sat May 12, 2012 6:53 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sat May 12, 2012 10:18 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Dan Honeycutt |
Sun May 13, 2012 12:39 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Charles Roberson |
Sat May 12, 2012 2:02 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alex Newman |
Sat May 12, 2012 5:25 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Uri Blass |
Sat May 12, 2012 6:14 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Neel Basant |
Sat May 05, 2012 5:55 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Robert Houdart |
Sat May 05, 2012 9:18 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
George Speight |
Mon May 07, 2012 5:21 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Sun May 06, 2012 4:22 am |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
S.Taylor |
Sat May 05, 2012 11:08 pm |
| Re: When will we see HOUDINI in official tournaments? |
Alex Brown |
Sat May 05, 2012 11:35 pm |
| CSVN rules? |
Emil Vlasak |
Mon May 07, 2012 3:51 am |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Ed Schroder |
Mon May 07, 2012 4:22 am |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Emil Vlasak |
Mon May 07, 2012 12:53 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Alex Newman |
Mon May 07, 2012 5:16 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Miguel A. Ballicora |
Mon May 07, 2012 5:44 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
H.G.Muller |
Mon May 07, 2012 5:44 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Alex Newman |
Mon May 07, 2012 5:52 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
H.G.Muller |
Mon May 07, 2012 5:56 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Alex Newman |
Mon May 07, 2012 6:22 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
H.G.Muller |
Mon May 07, 2012 6:27 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Ed Schroder |
Mon May 07, 2012 8:18 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Emil Vlasak |
Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 am |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 am |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Emil Vlasak |
Tue May 08, 2012 2:47 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue May 08, 2012 4:03 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Alex Newman |
Tue May 08, 2012 5:36 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue May 08, 2012 5:54 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Harvey Williamson |
Tue May 08, 2012 6:19 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Mark Lefler |
Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Don Dailey |
Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 am |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Harvey Williamson |
Wed May 09, 2012 11:31 am |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Don Dailey |
Wed May 09, 2012 12:11 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Harvey Williamson |
Wed May 09, 2012 12:13 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Thorsten Czub |
Wed May 09, 2012 5:26 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Thorsten Czub |
Wed May 09, 2012 5:24 pm |
| Re: CSVN rules? |
Don Dailey |
Wed May 09, 2012 5:29 pm |
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