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My anticommercial thinking (POLL)
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Commercial or anti-commercial?
Commercial
45%
 45%  [ 14 ]
Anti-commercial
54%
 54%  [ 17 ]
Voted : 31
Total Votes : 31
This poll does not expire

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George Speight



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 4521
PostPost subject: Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL)    Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:10 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
tomgdrums wrote:
geots wrote:
Strelkaman wrote:
I think the learning system,the 50 moves rule are 2 cases that some Engine staff uses to show to ppl" Hey Look at this!!I have a learning system now,a 50 moves rule,so that's why my engine goes commercial now.Make the update"Really if you think about the contribution to the evolution of chess engines by some people has been stuck in purpose.The profit is the magic word nowadays.

Remember back in time we had Robbolito,fruit,fire,ivanhoe.What about fire?Fire had the fastest speed operation system those days.And these engines were free.Those people were working just to offer a nice simple engine with super-human abilities just for free.

And then some people started making engines that were strong but not very strong.Suddenly the power of their chess engines went high in a very short time.Have you ever wonder why?And then they used this popularity for profit.But think about what they offer.

They offer a chess software who the abilities depends on your pc performance.You pay for a chess engine that works on a dual processor on a quad processor.You pay for the update in version of the same engine.Because the difference of the free engine to the commercial is zero without the pc performance.Look at those tests.A free version of the same chess engine in some tests win the commercial one.A commercial engine is not unbeatable.So why you pay?

I would like to pay if i had a chess engine that has a 4000 Elo Performance and the main engine opponents had 3500.But now we are talking about 50 or 100 Elo difference?

Look at the 1 core of Strelka.It beats the commercial engines.It doesnt win the war,but is a little less than equal.Look the test on 64-bits.Now wonder about the next Strelka MP and think this.Strelka with the 1 core does everything.It doesnt use the power of cores to show you the best performance.It does so with the 1 core already.But people want the MP solution.So Strelka team works for the MP engine.Thats why i think Strelka walks on the right path

Because chess engines must be free for everyone.Chess engine is not a cluster,is not a deep blue monster system.Is just a software and a software that has a different performance in totally on I7 than on a dual core




The major computer chess tournaments have been doing it a while. For me, it has nothing to do with the strongest engine any longer. It is who brings the best and most expensive hardware. And then people buy Junior 13 because it won the WCCC, and the last Ivanhoe I saw run against his commercial version ripped him apart 56-8. Me- I would be ashamed to ask more than 30 bucks for the "Deep Version" if it were mine, and 30 is 10 more than I think it is worth.

The hardware gets bigger and faster, the programs generally don't have to be that good any longer- they say wait till you see it on 8 cores. And sadly, the prices just keep going up. (When my dad was alive, he told me it would be easy to make the auto companies drop their prices- everyone, and I quote, "just quit buying the son of a bitches. That's all it takes.")

Engines like Houdini and Komodo have fair prices- their programs are worth what they charge. But who ever heard of paying 130 bucks for a "deep" version that the weakest Ivanhoe in the last 3 years could decapitate without even breathing hard.


george



Hey George!

I agree that Komodo and Houdini charge a fair price. I also think Shredder does as well (from the Shredder website) since you get (IMO) the best GUI, a great opening book, online access from the GUI to all 6 man tablebases and a great engine (not the strongest but still great). Plus you get an engine that is pretty well tuned to play SOMEWHAT realistically at weaker levels. (good for training)

I am excited to see what the new Hiarcs GUI is going to be like.

BUt I also agree that Junior is WAY overpriced. I mean WAY overpriced!

The one thing about commercial engine developers is that they sort of have to add the things users want or they lose business. Notice that when Houdini went commercial quickly added strength adjustment, Nalimov access, and a learning feature!! Thus making Houdini a better overall engine for analysis, training and learning. (arguably the best for those purpose right now but that is another debate!)

The Strelka author (and this NOT a slam against Strelka) does not have to do anything if he doesn't want to. He can release the engine as is. Which is cool that it is a strong engine but it doesn't provide me with anything other than some (maybe) extra strength.

For instance everyone loves the Stockfish GUI in Ipad because the engine is really strong and the GUI is good. BUT for my purposes it doesn't do enough! BUT I can't really "complain" or urge for more since it was free. (and it IS really nice)

The ChessTiger App in the Ipad store is AWESOME. And since I paid for it I can comfortable suggest improvements if I see them.

There is nothing wrong with free or commercial. They both have their purposes. And they can both help each other be better.

The commercial authors DO have realize they can't go berzerk on their pricein (JUNIOR!!) and they must offer a little something something extra as well. Shredder is AWESOME at this and it seems Hiarcs is going to follow that model as well.

Just my two cents! Smile




I agree with what you say, and I still use the Shredder 11 gui. That with the engine was the best deal I have seen in a long time. And you got a Pdf manual that actually made sense. I love being able to access the database while the match is running. And if there were any bugs- I haven't seen them.

gts
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Subject Author Date/Time
My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dimitri Yasenko Fri May 18, 2012 9:16 am
      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Lonnie Cook Fri May 18, 2012 9:54 am
            Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dr.Wael Deeb Fri May 18, 2012 10:02 am
      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Louis Zulli Fri May 18, 2012 11:08 am
      Re:No money , no proletcultism , Dimitri ! Ruxy Sylwyka Fri May 18, 2012 11:25 am
      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Mark Pearce Fri May 18, 2012 11:37 am
            Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dimitri Yasenko Fri May 18, 2012 11:56 am
                  Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Mark Pearce Fri May 18, 2012 12:37 pm
                        Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dimitri Yasenko Fri May 18, 2012 1:00 pm
                              Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Mark Pearce Fri May 18, 2012 1:14 pm
                                    Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dimitri Yasenko Fri May 18, 2012 1:21 pm
                              Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Louis Zulli Fri May 18, 2012 1:17 pm
                                    Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dimitri Yasenko Fri May 18, 2012 1:26 pm
                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Louis Zulli Fri May 18, 2012 5:10 pm
      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) George Speight Fri May 18, 2012 12:11 pm
            Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Dimitri Yasenko Fri May 18, 2012 12:30 pm
            Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Fri May 18, 2012 12:42 pm
                  Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) George Speight Fri May 18, 2012 1:10 pm
                  Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Ian Osgood Fri May 18, 2012 4:33 pm
                        Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Fri May 18, 2012 4:54 pm
                              Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) George Speight Fri May 18, 2012 5:50 pm
                                    Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Fri May 18, 2012 6:32 pm
                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Fri May 18, 2012 6:44 pm
                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Fri May 18, 2012 6:58 pm
                                                Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Fri May 18, 2012 7:32 pm
                                                      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Fri May 18, 2012 7:38 pm
                                                            Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Fri May 18, 2012 7:57 pm
                                                                  Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sat May 19, 2012 7:06 am
                                                                        Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Ronald de Man Sat May 19, 2012 10:47 am
                                                                              Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sat May 19, 2012 11:04 am
                                                                                    Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Sat May 19, 2012 11:24 am
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sat May 19, 2012 1:07 pm
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Sat May 19, 2012 2:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sat May 19, 2012 9:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Harvey Williamson Sat May 19, 2012 9:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) gerold daniels Sun May 20, 2012 12:44 am
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Sun May 20, 2012 2:49 am
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sun May 20, 2012 5:28 am
                                                                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sun May 20, 2012 11:16 am
                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) George Speight Sun May 20, 2012 8:43 am
                                                Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) H.G.Muller Sun May 20, 2012 9:06 am
                                                      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) George Speight Sun May 20, 2012 10:04 am
                                                      Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Ronald de Man Sun May 20, 2012 10:27 am
                                    Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Miguel A. Ballicora Fri May 18, 2012 8:18 pm
                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Tom Giampietro Sat May 19, 2012 2:37 am
                                          Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) George Speight Mon May 21, 2012 10:32 am
            Re: My anticommercial thinking (POLL) Lonnie Cook Fri May 18, 2012 12:56 pm
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