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World Computer Chess Championship ?
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Maurizio Maglio



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 766
PostPost subject: Re: World Computer Chess Championship ?    Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:39 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
Don wrote:
MM wrote:
hgm wrote:
MM wrote:
Of course we would never have a ''real'' world champion, but at least, we would have a 100% original world champion.


I don't get this. The Tour de France is not a 'real' Tour de France because doped cyclists are not allowed to participate, and we all know they are way faster than those that ride clean. The Olympics are not 'real' Olympics because doped athletes are banned, and we all know Ben Johnson ran faster than anyone else...

What kind of logic is that?


If clones or derivates are allowed to to partecipate to the chess world championship we would have a ''real'' world champion, where for ''real'' is meant that the world champion is really the strongest engine in the world (clone or not).

That sounds good on paper but the reasoning is badly flawed. Suppose Robert Houdart has 20 different development versions but he doesn't know which version is best? Unless all 20 are allowed to compete then how can we know which engine really is the strongest one? See how silly that is? But based on your (flawed) reasoning that would be perfectly equitable.

Let's assume that most every program is (roughly) about even in strength. Even though that is not the case the principle will be the same. If there are 10 programs then each program would have 1/10 chance of winning the tournament. If you were the only one allowed to bring 2 versions of your program, you would have twice the winning chances of your competitors. That is pretty obviously unfair. So what happens when Ivanhoe, Ippolitto and Robbolito and Firebird are 4 of those 10 programs? The chances that ONE of those 4 will win is actually much higher than ONE program 100 ELO stronger winning.

If we started to play this game then I would have to argue that I should be allowed to not just bring Komodo but several versions of Komodo so that we can "fairly" see which is really the stronger program. If that were not allowed I could just give these various development copies to my friends, they could rename them to something else and even admit that there were branched off of Komodo (but they are different which would be true) and the tournament could not argue with this reasoning or I would just repeat what you said and accuse them of not being interested in seeing which version is really strongest.

So your argument is emotionally appealing but it doesn't really stand up to logic.


Quote:


This has nothing to do with what is right or wrong, what is legal or not, what is ethical or not.

Take an engine, copy almost all of it, change it in order to make it 50 elo stronger than original...someone could say that is right, legal, ethical but anyway its programmer has a huge advantage to the other 100% original engines' programmers.

In The Tour de France sometimes it's impossible to know who is doped and who's not because everybody knows that doping goes faster than antidoping and today we have cyclers of the past, never banned, who admit to have used doping in the past. Someone is accused to be doped and perhaps he's not. Someone else is not accused of anything and perhaps he's doped.

The same for any other sport.

The question is not ''real or not real'', because, every time that some of all competitors don't partecipate, it's hard to say ''real''.

The question is: how do i know if an engine or an athlete is ok?'' and ''How do i set the rules to allow or not allow an engine/athlete to the competions?''


Hi Don,

I think we are talking about different things or perhaps the same thing, from different points of view.

What i stated is pretty obvious, more obvious if you note that Junior and Hiarcs are the world champions...with Komodo, with Houdini, with Rybka, with Critter ect. ect.

I didn't say what you stated as examples to mean that my reasoning was flawed.

Anyway if Fire, IvanHoe, Igorrit and Robbolito go to the world championship where's the problem? They globally have the biggest chances to win? Yes, and then?

The question is ''which engine is the strongest'', not how many clones or derivates are allowed to partecipate.

Yes, i could give my betas or versions to several friends and they go to the world championship with them. And so? Wouldn't it be a real world championship cause that?

Note that i'm not saying that it should be right...i just say that i expect, from a world championship, that the winner is the strongest engine and if not all engines are allowed i cannot say ''that is the strongest''.

With ''all engines'' of course i don't mean all the versions of a single engine or a lot of clones of the same engine with just a few changes.

That was not what i meant.

That's why i asked the question ''how do i set the rules to allow or not allow an engine to partecipate'', like saying, one should follow a solid and right criterion.

Note that i don't say that playing 20 different versions of Houdini or Komodo in the world championship is right. It's not right and not accettable because the world champiomship is a competition and going to a competition with several version of the same engine is like going to a war with 2 millions soldiers against 1 thousand ones.

But even if it should happen, i say that the winner of this world championship should be the strongest one (''should'' because the games played would be few).

P.S. Hope Komodo 5 soon. Thanks

Best Regards
_________________
MM

Last edited by Maurizio Maglio on Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:39 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:25 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:04 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:22 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:39 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:46 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:59 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Roger Brown Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:54 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:23 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? John Rissler Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:53 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:11 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? jose mº velasco Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:44 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:54 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:45 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:51 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:12 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:06 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:53 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:45 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:40 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:04 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:47 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Chris Whittington Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:58 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Joerg Oster Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:02 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:02 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Sam Hamilton Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:07 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Sam Hamilton Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:49 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Sam Hamilton Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:38 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Marco Costalba Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:02 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:20 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:38 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:52 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:37 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:41 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:46 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:08 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:41 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Richard Vida Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:23 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:24 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Miguel A. Ballicora Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:50 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Miguel A. Ballicora Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:00 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:14 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:35 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Boban Stanojevic Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:39 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Martin Sedlak Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:03 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:17 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:42 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:04 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Miguel A. Ballicora Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Martin Sedlak Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:46 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:43 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:49 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:57 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Martin Sedlak Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:09 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:22 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Miguel A. Ballicora Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:36 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Martin Sedlak Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:08 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:57 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:53 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:01 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:49 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:49 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Miguel A. Ballicora Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:42 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:51 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:03 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:23 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ronald de Man Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:24 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ben-Hur Carlos Langoni Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:11 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ben-Hur Carlos Langoni Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:12 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:05 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Eelco de Groot Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:49 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:02 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ronald de Man Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:06 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:29 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:35 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:05 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:33 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ronald de Man Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:42 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Marco Costalba Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:09 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? George Speight Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:49 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:46 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:40 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:39 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:06 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:01 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:07 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:44 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:19 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:32 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:36 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Uri Blass Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:12 am
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:24 pm
                                                                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ted Summers Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:27 am
                                                                              Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:27 pm
                                                                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:19 pm
                                                                              Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Ben-Hur Carlos Langoni Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:53 pm
                                                                  Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:13 am
                                                                        Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:09 am
                                                                              Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:50 am
                                                                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Adam Hair Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:30 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:05 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? H.G.Muller Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Peter Skinner Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Harvey Williamson Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:57 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Don Dailey Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:58 pm
                                                                              Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:12 pm
                                                                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Kai Laskos Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 pm
                              Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Marco Costalba Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:01 pm
                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Marco Costalba Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:18 pm
                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? George Speight Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:07 pm
                                    Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Robert Hyatt Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:08 am
            Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? George Speight Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:14 pm
      Re: World Computer Chess Championship ? Jeroen Noomen Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:02 am
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