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Daniel Shawul
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2186
Location: Ethiopia
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 Post subject: Re: ignored idea here Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:52 pm |
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| hgm wrote: |
Indeed, the space savings on 'factorizing' the key are huge. This is why I liked it. You could be right in that multiplication might be unnecessary, and (faster) addition could do. I would have to try how it affects collisions, as I am not completely at easy with it: addition is a lot like XOR, and for 'sparse' numbers (few 1 bits) they are often the same. Of course random numbers will hardly ever be sparse, but they will always always contain some sparses zones, and it is conceivable this would decrease their effective length. |
My complaint was to the absence of comments despite my repeated plea,and the fact that it looks like something to give a shot at. I had doubts also with XOR and ADD operations being similar but by the same reasoning so are MUL and ADD. Multiplication clearly produces sparse zones at the tails according to the tests I did (skewing the distribution). Infact it could be more damaging than ADD since multiplication can be reformulated as a series of additions. According to the page I posted above,multiplicative hash seems to be as bad as addition.
Also I seem to remeber you used add instead of zobrist for holdings in the past. So mixing two different operations ADD and XOR should be better. Anyway a direct test for collisions is what is needed.
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| Subject |
Author |
Date/Time |
 Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Kevin Hearn |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:44 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:54 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:46 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:24 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:14 am |
| ignored idea here |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:00 pm |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:30 am |
| Re: ignored idea here |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:50 am |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:52 pm |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Edmund Moshammer |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:21 am |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Edmund Moshammer |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:27 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Wylie Garvin |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:27 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:36 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:01 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Wylie Garvin |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:57 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:42 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Robert Hyatt |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:17 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:17 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Wylie Garvin |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:05 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:52 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Edmund Moshammer |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:58 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:49 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Edmund Moshammer |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:15 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:41 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Edmund Moshammer |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:55 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:03 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:44 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:48 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:28 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:01 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:42 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:51 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:27 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:29 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Karlo Bala Jr. |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:50 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:49 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:09 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:12 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:46 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:38 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:57 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:39 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:46 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:22 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:38 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:17 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:04 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:00 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:27 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:16 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:42 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:14 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:59 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:17 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:28 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:30 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:09 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:22 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:42 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:54 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:03 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:08 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:03 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:55 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:21 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:25 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:44 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:15 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:56 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:05 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:10 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:22 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:29 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:39 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:49 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:13 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:29 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:32 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:50 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:25 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:21 pm |
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