ChessUSA.com TalkChess.com
Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Redundant knight
Post new topic    TalkChess.com Forum Index -> Computer Chess Club: General Topics Flat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lyudmil Tsvetkov



Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 6031

PostPost subject: Re: Redundant knight    Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:36 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

[d]4r1k1/1pp2pp1/p1b1n2p/8/8/1PQ1N2P/P4PP1/6K1 w - - 0 1
   ::    :: BR :: BK ::
:: BP BP    :: BP BP    
BP :: BB :: BN ::    BP
::    ::    ::    ::    
   ::    ::    ::    ::
:: WP WQ    WN    :: WP
WP ::    ::    WP WP ::
::    ::    ::    WK    

2 piece configurations that lack any form of redundancy. A queen is never redundant with a knight.
Rook, bishop and knight are never redundant among themselves, as they control different squares.

[d]5bk1/1p1q1pp1/p5bp/8/2P5/1P2NBBP/P4PP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 1
   ::    ::    BB BK ::
:: BP :: BQ :: BP BP    
BP ::    ::    :: BB BP
::    ::    ::    ::    
   :: WP ::    ::    ::
:: WP ::    WN WB WB WP
WP ::    ::    WP WP ::
::    WR    ::    WK    

2 bishops are never redundant with a knight or rook, but are redundant with a queen, so black deserves above a small penalty for partial queen-bishop redundancy. (you could penalise just one of the bishops, so partial redundancy could receive just a single penalty for a specific configuration, i.e. you do not need to penalise twice the queen in QRR, just one full rook redundancy and one partial queen-rook redundancy penalty)

The amount of scepticism how useful this actually is is really astounding, but redundancy really plays a very big role in chess. The fact that someone tried to apply redundancy and failed does not mean that it is inapplicable. You simply need the right approach.

But again, to the unbelievers, there were times in chess, prehistoric ones, but also more recent, when engines evaluated only material and passers, and did very bad. Until some years ago passers even did not get a special bonus for rank. Most thought this to be stupid, but it proved to be completely not like that. It is the same with different forms of redundancy: they are real, they are tangible and useful, and could be successfully implemented, after many failed attempts of course, but you need to open your eyes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Subject Author Date/Time
Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:38 am
      Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:03 am
            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:54 am
                  Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:01 pm
      Re: Redundant knight Lucas Braesch Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:21 am
            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:03 pm
      Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:37 am
      Re: Redundant knight Louis Zulli Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:50 am
            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:13 pm
                  Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:36 pm
                        Thanks Louis Zulli Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:27 pm
                              Re: Thanks Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:09 pm
                                    Re: Thanks Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:32 pm
                                    Re: Thanks Louis Zulli Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:12 pm
                                    Re: Thanks Louis Zulli Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:21 pm
                                          Re: Thanks Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:30 pm
                                    Re: Thanks Robert Hyatt Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:51 am
                                          Re: Thanks Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:53 am
      Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:41 pm
            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:26 pm
                  Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:03 pm
                        Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:40 pm
                              Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 pm
            Re: Redundant knight Joerg Oster Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:33 pm
                  Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:12 pm
                        Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:19 pm
                              Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:35 pm
                                    Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:51 pm
                                    Re: Redundant knight Lucas Braesch Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:47 pm
                                          Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:23 pm
                                                Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:31 am
                                                      Re: Redundant knight Bernhard Bauer Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:31 am
                                                            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:57 am
                                                      Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:54 am
                                                            Re: Redundant knight Matthew R. Brades Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:04 am
                                                                  Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:57 am
                                                            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:48 am
                                                                  Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:19 am
                                                                        Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:00 am
      Re: Redundant knight Bernhard Bauer Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:22 am
            Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:07 am
                  Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:30 am
                        Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:45 am
                              Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:21 am
                                    Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:31 am
                                          Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:38 am
                                          Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:38 am
                                                Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:52 am
                                                      Re: Redundant knight Arjun Temurnikar Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:23 pm
                              Re: Redundant knight Kevin Hearn Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:30 am
                                    Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:16 am
                                          Re: Redundant bishop Bernhard Bauer Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:36 am
                                                Re: Redundant bishop Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:10 pm
                                                      Re: Redundant bishop H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:16 pm
                                          Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:59 am
                                                Re: Redundant knight Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:58 pm
                                          Re: Redundant knight H.G.Muller Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:11 pm
Post new topic    TalkChess.com Forum Index -> Computer Chess Club: General Topics

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Enhanced with Moby Threads