2 queens

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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: 2 queens

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

zullil wrote:
zullil wrote:
zullil wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: What about this one:

[d]8/2Nb1r1k/1Q1p2pp/3Pp3/2Q1Pp1b/5q2/P7/2K2N2 w - - 0 48

Maybe SF would be the right choice on this.
Latest SF:

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info depth 45 seldepth 103 score cp 179 nodes 78674342403 nps 17509213 time 4493311 multipv 1 pv c7e6 h4f2 b6d6 f2e3 f1e3 f3e3 c1c2 e3f2 c2b1 f2e1 b1b2 d7e6 d5e6 f7b7 c4b3 e1f2 b2c1 f2g1 c1c2 g1f2

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info depth 46 seldepth 103 score cp 195 nodes 95907430622 nps 17427546 time 5503209 multipv 1 pv c7e6 h4f2 b6d6 f2e3 f1e3 f3e3 c1b2 d7e6 d5e6 f7b7 c4b3 e3f2 b2c3 b7b3 c3b3 h7g8 d6d8 g8g7 d8e7 g7g8 e7f7 g8h8 f7d7

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info depth 47 seldepth 103 score cp 195 nodes 97419145792 nps 17448021 time 5583392 multipv 1 pv c7e6 h4f2 b6d6 f2e3 f1e3 f3e3 c1b2 d7e6 d5e6 f7b7 c4b3 e3f2 b2c3 b7b3 c3b3 h7g8 d6d8 g8g7 d8e7 g7g8 e7f7 g8h8 f7d7

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info depth 48 seldepth 103 score cp 205 nodes 115390641587 nps 17327985 time 6659207 multipv 1 pv c7e6 h4f2 b6d6 f2e3 f1e3 f3e3 c1b2 d7e6 d5e6 f7b7 c4b3 e3f2 b2c3 b7b3 c3b3 h7g8 d6d8 g8g7 d8e7 g7g8 e7f7 g8h8 f7d7
Thanks Louis.

So white is winning this, but Belov did not find Qd6.

SF excels in such positions, I knew it.

Btw., for anyone wanting to check the theory how 2 queens perform in relation to 1 queen, a reasonable test would be to give first 50cps bonus to the queens, and then 50cps penalty. One of the values should perform better, if there is a distinction, otherwise you simply stay with the normal values.

Of course, the second queen bonus or penalty could be applied also to a 3rd queen.
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hgm
Posts: 27808
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:06 am
Location: Amsterdam
Full name: H G Muller

Re: 2 queens

Post by hgm »

People that want to know if a second Queen is worth less than the first should play games between identical and equally strong opponents, starting from quite positions with a 2Q vs Q + other-material imbalance, and measure how the average result changes upon deleting the first pair of opposing Queens.

They won't learn anything from messing with the material evaluation of 2 Queens, as no matter how you set it, 2 Queens will only occur in less than 0.1% of all games that are not yet completely decided. So that you would need a billion games or more to see any difference with statistical significance.
zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: 2 queens

Post by zullil »

kgburcham wrote: Mate in 14
[D] 3r3k/7p/5PP1/1q6/p2p1N1K/2b1pBP1/8/3Q4 w - -

Engine: Deep Rybka 4.1 SSE42 x64 (4096 MB)
by Vasik Rajlich

23.01 12:35 +M14 65.Qc2 Rg8 66.Qe4 Qd7 67.g7+ Rxg7 68.fxg7+ Kxg7 69.Qe5+ Kf7 70.Bd5+ Kf8 71.Ne6+ Ke7 72.Nc5+ Kd8 73.Nxd7 Kxd7 74.Qe6+ Kd8 75.Qd6+ Kc8 76.Bc6 Be1 77.Qd7+ Kb8 78.Qb7+ (1.378.700.319) 1826 TB:3.943
Latest SF also finds the mate-in-14, in just about the same number of nodes:

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info depth 35 seldepth 69 score mate 14 nodes 1317805548 nps 14521113 time 90751 multipv 1 pv d1c2 d8g8 f3d5 b5a6 g6g7 g8g7 f6g7 h8g7 f4e6 g7f6 c2e4 a6f1 e6f4 f1h1 e4h1 f6e7 h1e4 e7d7 e4e6 d7c7 e6c6 c7d8 c6b7 e3e2 f4e6 d8e8 d5c6