What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzoni?

[Jesse Gersenson]

I think that it may be interesting to see komodo play for fide rating when komodo play without knight b1 at time control of 90+30 that is the normal time control(slower than 45+15)

45' + 15" counts towards a standard rating. For rating purposes it is no different than 90' + 30"

[Uri Blass]

I think that it may be interesting to see komodo play for fide rating when komodo play without knight b1 at time control of 90+30 that is the normal time control(slower than 45+15)

45' + 15" counts towards a standard rating. For rating purposes it is no different than 90' + 30"

45'+15'' counts towards a standard fide rating only if all the players are below fide rating 1600.

see
https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html ... ew=article

For a game to be rated, each player must have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves, assuming the game lasts 60 moves.
Where at least one of the players in the tournament has a rating 2200 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 120 minutes.
Where at least one of the players in the tournament has a rating 1600 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 90 minutes.
Where all the players in the tournament are rated below 1600, each player must have a minimum of 60 minutes.

[Vinvin]

Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges) on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.

After the first day : one win, one lost, one draw !

[lkaufman]

Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges) on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.

After the first day : one win, one lost, one draw !

I'm happy with the result, since it means that unless we lose all three games next week, we won't lose the match. Looks like we should challenge FM Meyer to the same match afterwards, since although he might not be any stronger than Bolzoni, he did win every game from Rybka, so he proved that he knows how to convert an extra piece.
World Champion Emanuel Lasker once defined a chess master as someone who was strong enough to beat anyone at pawn odds. I'm sure that a FIDE master today is stronger than a borderline master in Lasker's day. I don't imagine that Lasker even thought it was possible for any player to be strong enough to give knight odds to a master with success.
The closest human precedent we have to this match is the one Gary Kasparov played about a dozen years ago giving two pawn handicap to a British billionaire who had once been the number three junior in England and was believed to be around 2100 FIDE level at the time of the match. I beieve that Kasparov won by 2.5 to 1.5 but one of the handicap pawns was the "a" pawn, so it was more like a 1.5 pawn handicap. Apparently they thought that knight odds was out of the question, clearly too much. But Bolzoni is probably a stronger player than Kasparov's opponent.

[Uri Blass]

Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges) on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.

After the first day : one win, one lost, one draw !

I'm happy with the result, since it means that unless we lose all three games next week, we won't lose the match. Looks like we should challenge FM Meyer to the same match afterwards, since although he might not be any stronger than Bolzoni, he did win every game from Rybka, so he proved that he knows how to convert an extra piece.
World Champion Emanuel Lasker once defined a chess master as someone who was strong enough to beat anyone at pawn odds. I'm sure that a FIDE master today is stronger than a borderline master in Lasker's day. I don't imagine that Lasker even thought it was possible for any player to be strong enough to give knight odds to a master with success.
The closest human precedent we have to this match is the one Gary Kasparov played about a dozen years ago giving two pawn handicap to a British billionaire who had once been the number three junior in England and was believed to be around 2100 FIDE level at the time of the match. I beieve that Kasparov won by 2.5 to 1.5 but one of the handicap pawns was the "a" pawn, so it was more like a 1.5 pawn handicap. Apparently they thought that knight odds was out of the question, clearly too much. But Bolzoni is probably a stronger player than Kasparov's opponent.

I know about a human at the level of fide rating near 2000(based on his israeli rating but no fide rating because he played almost no tournaments that are relevant for fide rating) who said before the match against FM Bolzoni that he expect to win most games with the same conditions.

I asked now if he agree to play with the same conditions(25 euro for every game he wins against komodo and time control of 45+15 and he said that he agree to try).

The question is if the komodo team is interested in it
or maybe you are interested only in longer time control of 90+30 because of the feeling that you have nothing to prove against level of fide rating near 2000 at 45+15

[Jesse Gersenson]

Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges) on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.

After the first day : one win, one lost, one draw !

I'm happy with the result, since it means that unless we lose all three games next week, we won't lose the match. Looks like we should challenge FM Meyer to the same match afterwards, since although he might not be any stronger than Bolzoni, he did win every game from Rybka, so he proved that he knows how to convert an extra piece.
World Champion Emanuel Lasker once defined a chess master as someone who was strong enough to beat anyone at pawn odds. I'm sure that a FIDE master today is stronger than a borderline master in Lasker's day. I don't imagine that Lasker even thought it was possible for any player to be strong enough to give knight odds to a master with success.
The closest human precedent we have to this match is the one Gary Kasparov played about a dozen years ago giving two pawn handicap to a British billionaire who had once been the number three junior in England and was believed to be around 2100 FIDE level at the time of the match. I beieve that Kasparov won by 2.5 to 1.5 but one of the handicap pawns was the "a" pawn, so it was more like a 1.5 pawn handicap. Apparently they thought that knight odds was out of the question, clearly too much. But Bolzoni is probably a stronger player than Kasparov's opponent.

I know about a human at the level of fide rating near 2000(based on his israeli rating but no fide rating because he played almost no tournaments that are relevant for fide rating) who said before the match against FM Bolzoni that he expect to win most games with the same conditions.

I asked now if he agree to play with the same conditions(25 euro for every game he wins against komodo and time control of 45+15 and he said that he agree to try).

The question is if the komodo team is interested in it
or maybe you are interested only in longer time control of 90+30 because of the feeling that you have nothing to prove against level of fide rating near 2000 at 45+15

A friend, ~2000, played at blitz time control and lost every game getting knight odds.

[lkaufman]

Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges) on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.

After the first day : one win, one lost, one draw !

I'm happy with the result, since it means that unless we lose all three games next week, we won't lose the match. Looks like we should challenge FM Meyer to the same match afterwards, since although he might not be any stronger than Bolzoni, he did win every game from Rybka, so he proved that he knows how to convert an extra piece.
World Champion Emanuel Lasker once defined a chess master as someone who was strong enough to beat anyone at pawn odds. I'm sure that a FIDE master today is stronger than a borderline master in Lasker's day. I don't imagine that Lasker even thought it was possible for any player to be strong enough to give knight odds to a master with success.
The closest human precedent we have to this match is the one Gary Kasparov played about a dozen years ago giving two pawn handicap to a British billionaire who had once been the number three junior in England and was believed to be around 2100 FIDE level at the time of the match. I beieve that Kasparov won by 2.5 to 1.5 but one of the handicap pawns was the "a" pawn, so it was more like a 1.5 pawn handicap. Apparently they thought that knight odds was out of the question, clearly too much. But Bolzoni is probably a stronger player than Kasparov's opponent.

I know about a human at the level of fide rating near 2000(based on his israeli rating but no fide rating because he played almost no tournaments that are relevant for fide rating) who said before the match against FM Bolzoni that he expect to win most games with the same conditions.

I asked now if he agree to play with the same conditions(25 euro for every game he wins against komodo and time control of 45+15 and he said that he agree to try).

The question is if the komodo team is interested in it
or maybe you are interested only in longer time control of 90+30 because of the feeling that you have nothing to prove against level of fide rating near 2000 at 45+15

Assuming that we don't lose the current match (we need just one more draw in three games), we have no reason to repeat the test against a lower rated player. FM John Meyer would be next in line for this handicap. He is 2270 FIDE but about 70 years old so perhaps not much stronger than Bolzoni, but his 4 - 0 vs. Rybka makes it ineresting. Of course you or anyone out there can host similar matches and report here if you like, once we release Komodo with contempt.

[yanquis1972]

larry, you mean that you arent even using a special eval?? i assume you at least made a small opening book as you did with rybka...at any rate that makes the result much more impressive imo -- tho i think a special eval for knight odds would be completely fair game.

[lkaufman]

larry, you mean that you arent even using a special eval?? i assume you at least made a small opening book as you did with rybka...at any rate that makes the result much more impressive imo -- tho i think a special eval for knight odds would be completely fair game.

No opening book; I just designated the first move for White in each of the three games for variety. No special eval, but the contempt value was set way higher than normal, which you might say is a sort of special eval, to avoid even trades when practical.

[Jhoravi]

Hi Larry,
I have a question when the "tweak to avoid piece trades" is applied. Does the PV prefer lines where only the engine side avoids piece trades? Or is it execting the human side to think the same way?

Ideally, only the engine wants to avoid piece trades and it expects the human to play without the contempt in its analysis.

cheers