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Cursed win at TCEC
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Ronald de Man



Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Posts: 3684

PostPost subject: Re: Cursed win at TCEC    Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:05 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ralph Stoesser wrote:
syzygy wrote:
Ralph Stoesser wrote:
I can't see why it should be broken. It's not the question if someone may be able to show that a checkmate is unavoidable. That someone has to be the engine that plays, and as long as the adjucation tb is state of the art there will be no problem. I would call that progress.

It has to be the engine that plays?

In game 17, both engines were able to show that the position was a draw.

How will you modify your condition now to make it fit your ideal?

In the time loss example white was able to show that the position was a win. Why should he not have been awarded the win?

And do you realise that you are skewing the game rules in favour of the side making the prediction that it can mate (no matter the time it would take him or the number of moves it would take him) over the side that actually tries to play out the win over the board (but then runs into a 50-move draw or runs out of time)?


I have absolutely no idea why you still think somebody and especially me would want to change FIDE rules? They are fine, nearly perfect, for ever, written in golden letters. We are talking about engine tournaments. FIDE rules do not apply in that case.

Where did I mention FIDE?

Quote:
Then there are the TCEC rules, in particular the TB adjucation rule. There is obviously something broken. Game 17 shouldn't have been adjucated as a win, because both engines are playing with a TB setup that includes the 50 move draw rule, but the adjucation system doesn't. That wrong adjucation (actually there are two cases) should have been manually corrected.

OK, it wasn't obvious to me that you were in agreement all along.

Quote:
In the end we would of course like to have an adjucation system that would be fair without any invention from a tournament director.

I don't think correcting an adjudication result once or at most twice per season is a big deal. But of course it is nicer if the automatic adjudication system gets fixed.

Quote:
My wish for the next TCEC tournament would be:

Cutechess with 6 piece TB adjucation but without 50 move draw rule restriction. All engines playing with the same TB setup, also without 50 move draw rule restriction (or without TB at all). No other changes. Especially no changes in FIDE tournaments where humans are involved. Lol.

Now what exactly would be the problem with this setup?

One problem is that this is unfair to engines that do not use TBs. They rely on the 50-move rule being applied in all positions.

Separately from the 50-move rule, I personally don't think 6-piece TB adjudication is a good idea if one of the engines does not use TBs. There are many 6-piece positions that (some) engines are not able to play correctly, so adjudicating those is helping TB-less engines too much. This problem also exists for 5-piece positions, but to a much smaller extent.

The best solution in my eyes is to replace TB adjudication with a request to authors of engines that use TBs to greatly limit thinking time on TB positions. Alternatively, TCEC could artificially limit their thinking time (as suggested by HGM), but that requires changes in cutechess and might be tricky to get right. Of course without TB adjudication the 50-move rule obviously continues to be in place.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Cursed win at TCEC Nuno Sousa Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:13 pm
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:35 pm
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Erin Dame Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:41 pm
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:51 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:02 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:27 am
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Nuno Sousa Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 pm
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mark Young Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:39 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Greg Simpson Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:49 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Uri Blass Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:52 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:24 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mark Young Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:10 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mark Young Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:33 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Dan Cooper Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:36 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:52 pm
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mark Young Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:26 am
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:38 am
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mark Young Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:54 am
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:41 am
                                                                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Kai Laskos Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:13 am
                                                                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Greg Simpson Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:03 pm
                                                                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Guenther Simon Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:20 pm
                                                                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:56 pm
                                                                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Guenther Simon Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:48 am
                                                                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Kai Laskos Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:01 am
                                                                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Guenther Simon Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:14 am
                                                                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mark Young Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:08 am
                                                                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:14 am
                                                                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:38 am
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:52 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:53 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Roch Manilla Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:01 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC T. Poppins Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:27 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michel Van den Bergh Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:17 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Patrik Karlsson Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:33 am
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:39 am
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Eric Mullins Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:03 am
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Norm Pollock Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:09 am
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Eric Mullins Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:18 am
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Norm Pollock Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:21 am
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Greg Simpson Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:17 am
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Eric Mullins Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:20 am
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:56 am
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Allan Johnson Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:07 am
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Juan Molina Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:03 pm
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Robert Houdart Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:51 am
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Jean Baptiste Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:07 am
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Gary Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:42 am
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:56 am
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:33 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Nay Lin Tun Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:54 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:14 am
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Guenther Simon Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:36 am
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:48 am
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Guenther Simon Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:54 am
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:06 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:41 am
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Nay Lin Tun Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:48 am
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Roch Manilla Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:10 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:32 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Roch Manilla Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:49 pm
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:13 pm
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Branko Radovanovic Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:26 pm
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:38 pm
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:31 pm
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Branko Radovanovic Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:30 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:46 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:23 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:27 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:42 pm
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC John Margusen Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:54 pm
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:09 pm
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:21 pm
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:04 pm
                        545 moves Greg Simpson Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:38 pm
                              fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:21 am
                                    Re: fortress_draw_rule Roch Manilla Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:36 am
                                    Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:12 am
                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:43 am
                                    Re: fortress_draw_rule Michael B Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:23 pm
                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Norm Pollock Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:41 pm
                                                Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:50 pm
                                                      Re: fortress_draw_rule duncan roberts Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:19 pm
                                                            Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:34 pm
                                                                  Re: fortress_draw_rule Ralph Stoesser Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:40 pm
                                                Re: fortress_draw_rule Michael B Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:04 pm
                                                      Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:51 pm
                                                            Re: fortress_draw_rule duncan roberts Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:07 am
                                                                  Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:42 am
                                                                        Re: fortress_draw_rule Ralph Stoesser Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:18 pm
                                                                              Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:42 pm
                                                                                    Re: fortress_draw_rule Ralph Stoesser Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ralph Stoesser Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:30 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:08 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:33 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:51 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:58 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:19 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Joerg Oster Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:28 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:13 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:19 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:57 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Norm Pollock Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:07 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:41 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:18 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:42 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:44 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:51 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:04 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:12 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:29 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:46 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Uri Blass Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:24 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:48 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:50 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:09 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:27 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:01 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Michael B Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:51 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Norm Pollock Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:19 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:26 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:30 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:46 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:35 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:27 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Henk van den Belt Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:31 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:56 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Henk van den Belt Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:29 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:59 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:50 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:37 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:32 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:15 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:23 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:35 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:45 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:43 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:29 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:38 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:30 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:38 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:37 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:00 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:44 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:47 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:08 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:41 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:26 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:47 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:29 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:51 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule duncan roberts Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:30 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:26 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:26 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:44 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:45 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:12 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:52 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:42 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:29 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:36 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:54 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Uri Blass Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:50 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:43 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:48 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Adam Kostas Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Adam Kostas Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:43 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:31 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Guenther Simon Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:40 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:14 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:41 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:48 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:05 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:56 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:15 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:09 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:44 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:32 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:10 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:11 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:56 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Nuno Sousa Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:42 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:23 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Erin Dame Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:43 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Johan van Mierle Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:57 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Roch Manilla Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:11 pm
                                                                              Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:26 pm
                                                                                    Re: fortress_draw_rule Ralph Stoesser Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:29 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:08 am
                                                                                    Re: fortress_draw_rule Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:47 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:12 am
                                                                                          Re: fortress_draw_rule Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:05 pm
                              Re: 545 moves Guy Haworth Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:12 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:50 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Dan Cooper Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:07 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:24 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Robert Hyatt Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:46 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Sven Schüle Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:24 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Greg Simpson Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:28 am
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Sven Schüle Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:07 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Andreas Paulick Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:24 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Mohan Jayaraman Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:46 am
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:36 am
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Uri Blass Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:00 am
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:35 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Joerg Oster Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:09 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:09 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:55 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:31 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:45 pm
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:48 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Michael B Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:00 pm
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:34 pm
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:58 pm
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:00 pm
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:09 pm
                                                                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:05 pm
                                                                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:28 pm
                                                                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:13 am
                                                                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:06 am
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:33 am
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:52 am
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Jouni Uski Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:43 am
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:01 am
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:04 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:14 am
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Joona Kiiski Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:36 pm
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:47 pm
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:09 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:28 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:41 pm
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Thomas Lagershausen Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:47 pm
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Basil Falcinelli Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:43 pm
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Robert Maddox Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:33 pm
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Eric Mullins Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:55 pm
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Basil Falcinelli Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:49 am
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Kai Laskos Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:13 pm
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:50 pm
      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Basil Falcinelli Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:20 pm
            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:09 pm
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:20 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:54 am
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC H.G.Muller Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:53 am
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:37 am
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Krishna Chakravartula Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:52 pm
                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Juan Molina Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:42 pm
                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Norm Pollock Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:28 pm
                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:38 pm
                                    Re: Cursed win at TCEC Joseph Ellis Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:49 pm
                                          Re: Cursed win at TCEC Eric Mullins Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:42 pm
                                                Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:23 am
                                                      Re: Cursed win at TCEC Nuno Sousa Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:52 am
                                                            Re: Cursed win at TCEC Norm Pollock Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:24 pm
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Guenther Simon Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:50 pm
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:40 am
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Norm Pollock Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:54 am
                                                                  Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ferdinand Mosca Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:01 am
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 am
                                                                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Evert Glebbeek Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:02 am
                                                                        Re: Cursed win at TCEC Norm Pollock Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:26 pm
                                                                              Re: Cursed win at TCEC Ronald de Man Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:23 pm
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