TalkChess.com
Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games

Author Message
Joerg Oster

Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 599
Location: Germany

Post subject: Re: fortress_draw_rule    Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:26 am

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
syzygy wrote:
Evert wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
[d]8/4n3/4k3/8/8/4K1B1/2B5/8 w - - 0 1

why instruct the engine above position is a draw, when SF finds mate very quickly even at bullet?

I'm not sure what point you think you're making?
The position is apparently mate in 43 moves (starting with 1. Bb3+), so the 50 move rule is irrelevant even if the knight is not captured (which I haven't checked). Source: Nalimov tables from http://www.k4it.de/?topic=egtb&lang=en.

Yes, one side to this discussion is rather unwilling to understand the stuff he's talking about.

https://syzygy-tables.info/?fen=8/4n3/4k3/8/8/4K1B1/2B5/8_w_-_-_0_1

DTZ=59, so white can force a mate or winning capture in under 30 moves.

If this were impossible to win within the 50-move rule, SF would be expected not to find a mate in the first place. After all, SF knows about and accepts the 50-move rule.

I can not go check each and every tbs position whether is a longer or shorter than 50 mate. The general rule say BB vs N 66 moves longest mate, there are shorter mates of course. the point was to demonstrate that SF is able to deliver mate on its own in such positions, so why deprive it of a well-deserved win?

do not have quick access as well as the time to check tbs now, I hope you will help out with this, but here is a position I presume is longer than 50 mate:

[d]2kb4/1b6/8/8/3Q4/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1

actually, a variation of the TCEC game

I presume SF will be able to deliver mate on its own above at blitz TC, will it not?

Is somebody able to check this?

Why don't you check yourself?

Here https://syzygy-tables.info/ you can insert the FEN of the position you want to know,
and you get all information you need.

You can even download the full PGN of the main dtz winning line.
 Code: [Event ""] [Site "http://syzygy-tables.info/?fen=2kb4/1b6/8/8/3Q4/8/8/4K3_w_-_-_0_1"] [Date "2016.11.25"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "1-0"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "2kb4/1b6/8/8/3Q4/8/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"] [Annotator "syzygy-tables.info"] { DTZ 43 } 1. Qd6 Bc7 2. Qe6+ Kd8 3. Kd2 Bc8 4. Qc6 Bd7 5. Qf6+ Kc8 6. Kc3 Kb7 7. Kc4 Bb6 8. Kd5 Bb5 9. Qe7+ Ka6 10. Kd6 Ba7 11. Kc7 Bb6+ 12. Kb8 Bc4 13. Qb4 Bb5 14. Qa3+ Ba5 15. Qb3 Bb6 16. Qa2+ Ba5 17. Qd5 Bb4 18. Qb7+ Ka5 19. Qa7+ Ba6 20. Kc7 Kb5 21. Qb6+ Ka4 22. Qxa6+ { KQvKB with DTZ -16 } 22... Kb3 23. Qd3+ Kb2 24. Kb6 Bc3 25. Kb5 Kb3 26. Kc5 Kb2 27. Kc4 Ba5 28. Qb3+ Ka1 29. Qa3+ Kb1 30. Qxa5 { KQvK with DTZ -6 } 30... Kb2 31. Qd2+ Ka1 32. Kb3 Kb1 33. Qb2# { Checkmate } 1-0

_________________
Jörg Oster
 Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First
Subject Author Date/Time
Nuno Sousa Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:13 pm
Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:35 pm
Erin Dame Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:41 pm
Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 pm
Michael B Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:51 pm
Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:02 pm
Michael B Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:27 am
Nuno Sousa Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 pm
Mark Young Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:39 pm
Greg Simpson Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 pm
Dan Cooper Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:49 pm
Uri Blass Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:52 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:24 am
Mark Young Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:10 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 pm
Mark Young Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:33 pm
Dan Cooper Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:36 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:52 pm
Mark Young Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:26 am
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:38 am
Mark Young Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:54 am
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:41 am
Kai Laskos Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:13 am
Greg Simpson Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:03 pm
Guenther Simon Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:20 pm
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:56 pm
Guenther Simon Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:48 am
Kai Laskos Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:01 am
Guenther Simon Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:14 am
Mark Young Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:08 am
Ronald de Man Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:14 am
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:38 am
Ronald de Man Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:52 pm
Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:53 pm
Roch Manilla Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:01 pm
T. Poppins Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:27 pm
Michel Van den Bergh Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:17 pm
Patrik Karlsson Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:33 am
Michael B Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:39 am
Eric Mullins Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:03 am
Norm Pollock Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:09 am
Eric Mullins Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:18 am
Norm Pollock Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:21 am
Greg Simpson Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:17 am
Eric Mullins Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:20 am
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:56 am
Allan Johnson Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:07 am
Juan Molina Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:03 pm
Robert Houdart Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:51 am
Jean Baptiste Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:07 am
Gary Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:42 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:56 am
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:33 am
Nay Lin Tun Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:54 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:14 am
Guenther Simon Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:36 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:48 am
Guenther Simon Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:54 am
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:06 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:41 am
Nay Lin Tun Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:48 am
Roch Manilla Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:10 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:32 pm
Roch Manilla Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:49 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:13 pm
Branko Radovanovic Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:26 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:38 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:31 pm
Branko Radovanovic Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:30 pm
S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:46 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:23 pm
S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:27 pm
Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:42 pm
John Margusen Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:54 pm
S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:09 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:21 pm
Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:04 pm
Greg Simpson Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:38 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:21 am
Roch Manilla Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:36 am
Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:12 am
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:43 am
Michael B Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:23 pm
Norm Pollock Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:41 pm
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:50 pm
duncan roberts Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:19 pm
Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:34 pm
Ralph Stoesser Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:40 pm
Michael B Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:04 pm
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:51 pm
duncan roberts Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:07 am
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:42 am
Ralph Stoesser Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:18 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:42 pm
Ralph Stoesser Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:15 pm
Ralph Stoesser Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:30 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:08 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:33 am
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:51 am
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:58 am
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:19 am
Joerg Oster Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:28 am
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:13 am
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:19 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:55 pm
Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:26 pm
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:31 pm
Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:33 pm
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:57 pm
Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:03 pm
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:10 pm
Erin Dame Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:13 pm
Norm Pollock Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:27 pm
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:58 pm
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:07 pm
Nuno Sousa Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:31 pm
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:41 pm
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:56 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:18 am
H.G.Muller Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:42 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:44 am
H.G.Muller Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:51 am
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:04 pm
Nuno Sousa Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:10 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:12 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:29 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:46 am
Uri Blass Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:24 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:48 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:50 am
H.G.Muller Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:00 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:52 pm
Evert Glebbeek Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:09 pm
H.G.Muller Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:27 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:01 pm
Evert Glebbeek Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:20 pm
Michael B Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:24 pm
Nuno Sousa Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:51 am
Norm Pollock Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:19 am
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:26 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:30 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:46 am
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:35 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:27 am
Henk van den Belt Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:31 am
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:56 am
Henk van den Belt Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:00 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:29 pm
H.G.Muller Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:59 pm
Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:50 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:37 am
Evert Glebbeek Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:33 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:32 am
Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:15 am
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:23 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:35 am
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:45 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:43 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:51 pm
Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:13 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:20 pm
Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:29 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:38 pm
Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:14 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:30 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:25 pm
Ronald de Man Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:38 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:37 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:00 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:44 am
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:47 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:27 pm
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:08 pm
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:33 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:41 am
Ronald de Man Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:26 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:47 am
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:29 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:51 am
duncan roberts Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:30 am
Re: fortress_draw_rule Joerg Oster Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:26 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:26 am
Evert Glebbeek Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:44 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:35 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:45 pm
Evert Glebbeek Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:12 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:52 am
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:42 am
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:29 am
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:36 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:10 pm
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:25 pm
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:54 pm
Uri Blass Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:50 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:43 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:48 am
Adam Kostas Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:37 pm
Adam Kostas Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:43 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:31 am
Guenther Simon Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:40 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:14 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:41 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:00 pm
Nuno Sousa Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:48 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:00 pm
H.G.Muller Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:05 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:56 am
Nuno Sousa Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:15 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:09 am
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:44 am
Nuno Sousa Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:14 pm
Ronald de Man Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:32 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:10 am
H.G.Muller Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:11 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:56 am
Nuno Sousa Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:42 am
Ronald de Man Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:23 pm
Erin Dame Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:52 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:43 am
Johan van Mierle Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:57 am
Roch Manilla Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:11 pm
Ronald de Man Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:26 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:29 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:08 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:47 am
Evert Glebbeek Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:12 am
Ronald de Man Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:05 pm
Guy Haworth Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:12 pm
Michael B Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:50 pm
Dan Cooper Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:07 pm
S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:24 pm
Robert Hyatt Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:46 pm
Sven Schüle Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:24 pm
Greg Simpson Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:28 am
Sven Schüle Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:07 am
Andreas Paulick Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:24 pm
Mohan Jayaraman Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:46 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:36 am
Uri Blass Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:00 am
Michael B Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:35 am
Joerg Oster Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:09 am
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:09 pm
Michael B Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:55 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:31 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:45 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:48 pm
Michael B Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:00 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:34 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:58 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:00 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:09 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:05 pm
H.G.Muller Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:28 pm
Ronald de Man Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:13 am
Ralph Stoesser Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:06 am
S.Taylor Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:33 am
Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:52 am
Jouni Uski Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:43 am
Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:01 am
Ronald de Man Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:04 am
Ronald de Man Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:14 am
Joona Kiiski Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:36 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:47 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:09 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:28 pm
Evert Glebbeek Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:41 pm
Thomas Lagershausen Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:47 pm
Basil Falcinelli Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:43 pm
Robert Maddox Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:33 pm
Eric Mullins Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:55 pm
Basil Falcinelli Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:49 am
Kai Laskos Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:13 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:50 pm
Basil Falcinelli Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:20 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:09 pm
Ralph Stoesser Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:20 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:54 am
H.G.Muller Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:53 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:37 am
Krishna Chakravartula Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:52 pm
Juan Molina Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:42 pm
Norm Pollock Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:28 pm
Ronald de Man Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:38 pm
Joseph Ellis Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:49 pm
Eric Mullins Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:42 pm
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:23 am
Nuno Sousa Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:52 am
Norm Pollock Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:24 pm
Guenther Simon Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:50 pm
Ronald de Man Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:40 am
Norm Pollock Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:54 am
Ferdinand Mosca Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:01 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 am
Evert Glebbeek Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:02 am
Norm Pollock Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:26 pm
Ronald de Man Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:23 pm

 Jump to: Select a forum Computer Chess Club Forums----------------Computer Chess Club: General TopicsComputer Chess Club: Tournaments and MatchesComputer Chess Club: Programming and Technical DiscussionsComputer Chess Club: Engine Origins Other Forums----------------Chess Thinkers ForumChess Players ForumForum Help and Suggestions
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum