Fascinating imbalance

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Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Nordlandia »

[d]6k1/3b4/5b2/3P2N1/5PP1/5K1P/8/8 w - - 0 60

[pgn][Event "15+15 | Ponder"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.12.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Asmfish | 2-Core, 5200U."]
[Black "Houdini 5 | 8-Core, 5960X."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A89"]
[WhiteElo "3200"]
[BlackElo "3200"]
[PlyCount "183"]
[EventDate "2016.??.??"]
[EventCountry "NOR"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]

1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nf3 O-O 6. O-O d6 7. Nc3 Nc6 {
-0.42/24 95} 8. d5 Na5 {-0.40/27 0} 9. b3 a6 {-0.79/24 143} 10. Bd2 c5 {
-0.79/25 36} 11. Rb1 Rb8 {-0.87/25 49} 12. a4 Bd7 {-0.76/25 0} 13. h3 b6 {
-0.70/24 0} 14. Qc2 Qc8 {-0.71/25 0} 15. Rfe1 Nb7 {-0.72/25 51} 16. Ng5 Nd8 {
-0.60/29 84} 17. e4 Nxe4 {-0.70/27 57} 18. Ncxe4 fxe4 {-0.61/28 0} 19. g4 b5 {
-0.65/25 21} 20. cxb5 axb5 {-0.65/26 61} 21. Qxe4 Bf6 {-0.68/26 68} 22. axb5
Bxb5 {-0.54/26 41} 23. Qc2 Qa6 {-0.53/27 191} 24. Be4 Be8 {-0.55/25 42} 25. Kg2
Ra8 {-0.48/24 75} 26. b4 Ba4 {-0.81/26 63} 27. Qc1 Rc8 {-0.88/27 121} 28. bxc5
Rxc5 {-0.73/30 0} 29. Qa3 Bd4 {-0.85/26 16} 30. Nf3 Bg7 {-0.85/28 0} 31. Bg5
Nf7 {-1.01/25 17} 32. Bxe7 Ra8 {-1.00/26 0} 33. Rbc1 Rxc1 {-1.06/29 49} 34.
Qxc1 Re8 {-1.09/29 28} 35. Bh4 Qb5 {-1.06/28 21} 36. Re3 Qb2 {-1.06/28 11} 37.
Qe1 Rb8 {-1.06/30 0} 38. Qa5 Qb5 {-1.00/31 0} 39. Qa7 Rb7 {-1.04/31 0} 40. Qa8+
Rb8 {-1.05/33 0} 41. Qc6 Bb2 {-1.10/33 17} 42. Qc7 Qb6 {-1.06/31 0} 43. Qc4 Qb5
{-1.09/29 86} 44. Qa2 Qb4 {-1.03/27 16} 45. Qb1 Bg7 {-0.95/25 15} 46. Re1 Kf8 {
-1.07/26 19} 47. Qa2 Bb2 {-1.01/24 14} 48. Bg5 Nxg5 {-0.81/26 22} 49. Nxg5 Kg8
{-0.95/29 38} 50. Bxg6 hxg6 {-1.03/27 0} 51. Qb1 Qd4 {-0.98/30 21} 52. Qxg6+
Qg7 {-1.07/30 27} 53. Qxd6 Re8 {-1.15/30 29} 54. Re6 Qd7 {-1.18/25 27} 55. Rg6+
Bg7 {-1.00/25 9} 56. Qxd7 Bxd7 {-1.18/28 12} 57. f4 Rf8 {-1.09/30 0} 58. Kf3
Rf6 {-1.16/31 0} 59. Rxf6 Bxf6 {-1.14/30 17} 60. Ne4 Bb2 {-0.95/24 12} 61. f5
Ba4 {-0.68/25 13} 62. Kf4 Bb3 {-0.60/30 12} 63. d6 Bc1+ {-0.58/30 0} 64. Kg3
Kf8 {-0.54/34 29} 65. Nc5 Ba2 {-0.53/30 3} 66. d7 Ke7 {-0.36/36 0} 67. Nd3 Be3
{-0.26/33 0} 68. Nb4 Bb3 {0.00/33 14} 69. h4 Kxd7 {0.00/32 4} 70. g5 Ke7 {
0.00/35 13} 71. Kg4 Kf7 {0.00/36 27} 72. Nd3 Bd1+ {0.00/38 22} 73. Kg3 Bd4 {
0.00/38 6} 74. Kf4 Bc3 {0.00/37 11} 75. Ne5+ Ke7 {0.00/37 10} 76. Nc4 Be1 {
0.00/36 23} 77. f6+ Ke6 {0.00/40 0} 78. Ne5 Bd2+ {0.00/42 13} 79. Ke4 Bh5 {
0.00/42 8} 80. f7 Bb4 {0.00/43 23} 81. g6 Bf8 {0.00/48 0} 82. Kf4 Bd1 {0.00/44
22} 83. Nd3 Bc2 {0.00/40 32} 84. Ke3 Kf5 {0.00/44 51} 85. h5 Bh6+ {0.00/42 16}
86. Kd4 Bg7+ {0.00/54 0} 87. Kc4 Bd1 {0.00/58 19} 88. Kd5 Bxh5 {0.00/52 26} 89.
Nf4 Kxf4 {0.00/63 28} 90. Ke6 Ke4 {0.00/26 14} 91. Ke7 Bxg6 {0.00/27 22} 92.
f8=Q {rules infraction} 1/2-1/2

[/pgn]

Code: Select all

[Event "15+15 | Ponder"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.12.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Asmfish | 2-Core, 5200U."]
[Black "Houdini 5 | 8-Core, 5960X."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A89"]
[WhiteElo "3200"]
[BlackElo "3200"]
[PlyCount "183"]
[EventDate "2016.??.??"]
[EventCountry "NOR"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]

1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nf3 O-O 6. O-O d6 7. Nc3 Nc6 {
-0.42/24 95} 8. d5 Na5 {-0.40/27 0} 9. b3 a6 {-0.79/24 143} 10. Bd2 c5 {
-0.79/25 36} 11. Rb1 Rb8 {-0.87/25 49} 12. a4 Bd7 {-0.76/25 0} 13. h3 b6 {
-0.70/24 0} 14. Qc2 Qc8 {-0.71/25 0} 15. Rfe1 Nb7 {-0.72/25 51} 16. Ng5 Nd8 {
-0.60/29 84} 17. e4 Nxe4 {-0.70/27 57} 18. Ncxe4 fxe4 {-0.61/28 0} 19. g4 b5 {
-0.65/25 21} 20. cxb5 axb5 {-0.65/26 61} 21. Qxe4 Bf6 {-0.68/26 68} 22. axb5
Bxb5 {-0.54/26 41} 23. Qc2 Qa6 {-0.53/27 191} 24. Be4 Be8 {-0.55/25 42} 25. Kg2
Ra8 {-0.48/24 75} 26. b4 Ba4 {-0.81/26 63} 27. Qc1 Rc8 {-0.88/27 121} 28. bxc5
Rxc5 {-0.73/30 0} 29. Qa3 Bd4 {-0.85/26 16} 30. Nf3 Bg7 {-0.85/28 0} 31. Bg5
Nf7 {-1.01/25 17} 32. Bxe7 Ra8 {-1.00/26 0} 33. Rbc1 Rxc1 {-1.06/29 49} 34.
Qxc1 Re8 {-1.09/29 28} 35. Bh4 Qb5 {-1.06/28 21} 36. Re3 Qb2 {-1.06/28 11} 37.
Qe1 Rb8 {-1.06/30 0} 38. Qa5 Qb5 {-1.00/31 0} 39. Qa7 Rb7 {-1.04/31 0} 40. Qa8+
Rb8 {-1.05/33 0} 41. Qc6 Bb2 {-1.10/33 17} 42. Qc7 Qb6 {-1.06/31 0} 43. Qc4 Qb5
{-1.09/29 86} 44. Qa2 Qb4 {-1.03/27 16} 45. Qb1 Bg7 {-0.95/25 15} 46. Re1 Kf8 {
-1.07/26 19} 47. Qa2 Bb2 {-1.01/24 14} 48. Bg5 Nxg5 {-0.81/26 22} 49. Nxg5 Kg8
{-0.95/29 38} 50. Bxg6 hxg6 {-1.03/27 0} 51. Qb1 Qd4 {-0.98/30 21} 52. Qxg6+
Qg7 {-1.07/30 27} 53. Qxd6 Re8 {-1.15/30 29} 54. Re6 Qd7 {-1.18/25 27} 55. Rg6+
Bg7 {-1.00/25 9} 56. Qxd7 Bxd7 {-1.18/28 12} 57. f4 Rf8 {-1.09/30 0} 58. Kf3
Rf6 {-1.16/31 0} 59. Rxf6 Bxf6 {-1.14/30 17} 60. Ne4 Bb2 {-0.95/24 12} 61. f5
Ba4 {-0.68/25 13} 62. Kf4 Bb3 {-0.60/30 12} 63. d6 Bc1+ {-0.58/30 0} 64. Kg3
Kf8 {-0.54/34 29} 65. Nc5 Ba2 {-0.53/30 3} 66. d7 Ke7 {-0.36/36 0} 67. Nd3 Be3
{-0.26/33 0} 68. Nb4 Bb3 {0.00/33 14} 69. h4 Kxd7 {0.00/32 4} 70. g5 Ke7 {
0.00/35 13} 71. Kg4 Kf7 {0.00/36 27} 72. Nd3 Bd1+ {0.00/38 22} 73. Kg3 Bd4 {
0.00/38 6} 74. Kf4 Bc3 {0.00/37 11} 75. Ne5+ Ke7 {0.00/37 10} 76. Nc4 Be1 {
0.00/36 23} 77. f6+ Ke6 {0.00/40 0} 78. Ne5 Bd2+ {0.00/42 13} 79. Ke4 Bh5 {
0.00/42 8} 80. f7 Bb4 {0.00/43 23} 81. g6 Bf8 {0.00/48 0} 82. Kf4 Bd1 {0.00/44
22} 83. Nd3 Bc2 {0.00/40 32} 84. Ke3 Kf5 {0.00/44 51} 85. h5 Bh6+ {0.00/42 16}
86. Kd4 Bg7+ {0.00/54 0} 87. Kc4 Bd1 {0.00/58 19} 88. Kd5 Bxh5 {0.00/52 26} 89.
Nf4 Kxf4 {0.00/63 28} 90. Ke6 Ke4 {0.00/26 14} 91. Ke7 Bxg6 {0.00/27 22} 92.
f8=Q {rules infraction} 1/2-1/2
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Nordlandia wrote:[d]6k1/3b4/5b2/3P2N1/5PP1/5K1P/8/8 w - - 0 60

[pgn][Event "15+15 | Ponder"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.12.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Asmfish | 2-Core, 5200U."]
[Black "Houdini 5 | 8-Core, 5960X."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A89"]
[WhiteElo "3200"]
[BlackElo "3200"]
[PlyCount "183"]
[EventDate "2016.??.??"]
[EventCountry "NOR"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]

1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nf3 O-O 6. O-O d6 7. Nc3 Nc6 {
-0.42/24 95} 8. d5 Na5 {-0.40/27 0} 9. b3 a6 {-0.79/24 143} 10. Bd2 c5 {
-0.79/25 36} 11. Rb1 Rb8 {-0.87/25 49} 12. a4 Bd7 {-0.76/25 0} 13. h3 b6 {
-0.70/24 0} 14. Qc2 Qc8 {-0.71/25 0} 15. Rfe1 Nb7 {-0.72/25 51} 16. Ng5 Nd8 {
-0.60/29 84} 17. e4 Nxe4 {-0.70/27 57} 18. Ncxe4 fxe4 {-0.61/28 0} 19. g4 b5 {
-0.65/25 21} 20. cxb5 axb5 {-0.65/26 61} 21. Qxe4 Bf6 {-0.68/26 68} 22. axb5
Bxb5 {-0.54/26 41} 23. Qc2 Qa6 {-0.53/27 191} 24. Be4 Be8 {-0.55/25 42} 25. Kg2
Ra8 {-0.48/24 75} 26. b4 Ba4 {-0.81/26 63} 27. Qc1 Rc8 {-0.88/27 121} 28. bxc5
Rxc5 {-0.73/30 0} 29. Qa3 Bd4 {-0.85/26 16} 30. Nf3 Bg7 {-0.85/28 0} 31. Bg5
Nf7 {-1.01/25 17} 32. Bxe7 Ra8 {-1.00/26 0} 33. Rbc1 Rxc1 {-1.06/29 49} 34.
Qxc1 Re8 {-1.09/29 28} 35. Bh4 Qb5 {-1.06/28 21} 36. Re3 Qb2 {-1.06/28 11} 37.
Qe1 Rb8 {-1.06/30 0} 38. Qa5 Qb5 {-1.00/31 0} 39. Qa7 Rb7 {-1.04/31 0} 40. Qa8+
Rb8 {-1.05/33 0} 41. Qc6 Bb2 {-1.10/33 17} 42. Qc7 Qb6 {-1.06/31 0} 43. Qc4 Qb5
{-1.09/29 86} 44. Qa2 Qb4 {-1.03/27 16} 45. Qb1 Bg7 {-0.95/25 15} 46. Re1 Kf8 {
-1.07/26 19} 47. Qa2 Bb2 {-1.01/24 14} 48. Bg5 Nxg5 {-0.81/26 22} 49. Nxg5 Kg8
{-0.95/29 38} 50. Bxg6 hxg6 {-1.03/27 0} 51. Qb1 Qd4 {-0.98/30 21} 52. Qxg6+
Qg7 {-1.07/30 27} 53. Qxd6 Re8 {-1.15/30 29} 54. Re6 Qd7 {-1.18/25 27} 55. Rg6+
Bg7 {-1.00/25 9} 56. Qxd7 Bxd7 {-1.18/28 12} 57. f4 Rf8 {-1.09/30 0} 58. Kf3
Rf6 {-1.16/31 0} 59. Rxf6 Bxf6 {-1.14/30 17} 60. Ne4 Bb2 {-0.95/24 12} 61. f5
Ba4 {-0.68/25 13} 62. Kf4 Bb3 {-0.60/30 12} 63. d6 Bc1+ {-0.58/30 0} 64. Kg3
Kf8 {-0.54/34 29} 65. Nc5 Ba2 {-0.53/30 3} 66. d7 Ke7 {-0.36/36 0} 67. Nd3 Be3
{-0.26/33 0} 68. Nb4 Bb3 {0.00/33 14} 69. h4 Kxd7 {0.00/32 4} 70. g5 Ke7 {
0.00/35 13} 71. Kg4 Kf7 {0.00/36 27} 72. Nd3 Bd1+ {0.00/38 22} 73. Kg3 Bd4 {
0.00/38 6} 74. Kf4 Bc3 {0.00/37 11} 75. Ne5+ Ke7 {0.00/37 10} 76. Nc4 Be1 {
0.00/36 23} 77. f6+ Ke6 {0.00/40 0} 78. Ne5 Bd2+ {0.00/42 13} 79. Ke4 Bh5 {
0.00/42 8} 80. f7 Bb4 {0.00/43 23} 81. g6 Bf8 {0.00/48 0} 82. Kf4 Bd1 {0.00/44
22} 83. Nd3 Bc2 {0.00/40 32} 84. Ke3 Kf5 {0.00/44 51} 85. h5 Bh6+ {0.00/42 16}
86. Kd4 Bg7+ {0.00/54 0} 87. Kc4 Bd1 {0.00/58 19} 88. Kd5 Bxh5 {0.00/52 26} 89.
Nf4 Kxf4 {0.00/63 28} 90. Ke6 Ke4 {0.00/26 14} 91. Ke7 Bxg6 {0.00/27 22} 92.
f8=Q {rules infraction} 1/2-1/2

[/pgn]

Code: Select all

[Event "15+15 | Ponder"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.12.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Asmfish | 2-Core, 5200U."]
[Black "Houdini 5 | 8-Core, 5960X."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A89"]
[WhiteElo "3200"]
[BlackElo "3200"]
[PlyCount "183"]
[EventDate "2016.??.??"]
[EventCountry "NOR"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]

1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nf3 O-O 6. O-O d6 7. Nc3 Nc6 {
-0.42/24 95} 8. d5 Na5 {-0.40/27 0} 9. b3 a6 {-0.79/24 143} 10. Bd2 c5 {
-0.79/25 36} 11. Rb1 Rb8 {-0.87/25 49} 12. a4 Bd7 {-0.76/25 0} 13. h3 b6 {
-0.70/24 0} 14. Qc2 Qc8 {-0.71/25 0} 15. Rfe1 Nb7 {-0.72/25 51} 16. Ng5 Nd8 {
-0.60/29 84} 17. e4 Nxe4 {-0.70/27 57} 18. Ncxe4 fxe4 {-0.61/28 0} 19. g4 b5 {
-0.65/25 21} 20. cxb5 axb5 {-0.65/26 61} 21. Qxe4 Bf6 {-0.68/26 68} 22. axb5
Bxb5 {-0.54/26 41} 23. Qc2 Qa6 {-0.53/27 191} 24. Be4 Be8 {-0.55/25 42} 25. Kg2
Ra8 {-0.48/24 75} 26. b4 Ba4 {-0.81/26 63} 27. Qc1 Rc8 {-0.88/27 121} 28. bxc5
Rxc5 {-0.73/30 0} 29. Qa3 Bd4 {-0.85/26 16} 30. Nf3 Bg7 {-0.85/28 0} 31. Bg5
Nf7 {-1.01/25 17} 32. Bxe7 Ra8 {-1.00/26 0} 33. Rbc1 Rxc1 {-1.06/29 49} 34.
Qxc1 Re8 {-1.09/29 28} 35. Bh4 Qb5 {-1.06/28 21} 36. Re3 Qb2 {-1.06/28 11} 37.
Qe1 Rb8 {-1.06/30 0} 38. Qa5 Qb5 {-1.00/31 0} 39. Qa7 Rb7 {-1.04/31 0} 40. Qa8+
Rb8 {-1.05/33 0} 41. Qc6 Bb2 {-1.10/33 17} 42. Qc7 Qb6 {-1.06/31 0} 43. Qc4 Qb5
{-1.09/29 86} 44. Qa2 Qb4 {-1.03/27 16} 45. Qb1 Bg7 {-0.95/25 15} 46. Re1 Kf8 {
-1.07/26 19} 47. Qa2 Bb2 {-1.01/24 14} 48. Bg5 Nxg5 {-0.81/26 22} 49. Nxg5 Kg8
{-0.95/29 38} 50. Bxg6 hxg6 {-1.03/27 0} 51. Qb1 Qd4 {-0.98/30 21} 52. Qxg6+
Qg7 {-1.07/30 27} 53. Qxd6 Re8 {-1.15/30 29} 54. Re6 Qd7 {-1.18/25 27} 55. Rg6+
Bg7 {-1.00/25 9} 56. Qxd7 Bxd7 {-1.18/28 12} 57. f4 Rf8 {-1.09/30 0} 58. Kf3
Rf6 {-1.16/31 0} 59. Rxf6 Bxf6 {-1.14/30 17} 60. Ne4 Bb2 {-0.95/24 12} 61. f5
Ba4 {-0.68/25 13} 62. Kf4 Bb3 {-0.60/30 12} 63. d6 Bc1+ {-0.58/30 0} 64. Kg3
Kf8 {-0.54/34 29} 65. Nc5 Ba2 {-0.53/30 3} 66. d7 Ke7 {-0.36/36 0} 67. Nd3 Be3
{-0.26/33 0} 68. Nb4 Bb3 {0.00/33 14} 69. h4 Kxd7 {0.00/32 4} 70. g5 Ke7 {
0.00/35 13} 71. Kg4 Kf7 {0.00/36 27} 72. Nd3 Bd1+ {0.00/38 22} 73. Kg3 Bd4 {
0.00/38 6} 74. Kf4 Bc3 {0.00/37 11} 75. Ne5+ Ke7 {0.00/37 10} 76. Nc4 Be1 {
0.00/36 23} 77. f6+ Ke6 {0.00/40 0} 78. Ne5 Bd2+ {0.00/42 13} 79. Ke4 Bh5 {
0.00/42 8} 80. f7 Bb4 {0.00/43 23} 81. g6 Bf8 {0.00/48 0} 82. Kf4 Bd1 {0.00/44
22} 83. Nd3 Bc2 {0.00/40 32} 84. Ke3 Kf5 {0.00/44 51} 85. h5 Bh6+ {0.00/42 16}
86. Kd4 Bg7+ {0.00/54 0} 87. Kc4 Bd1 {0.00/58 19} 88. Kd5 Bxh5 {0.00/52 26} 89.
Nf4 Kxf4 {0.00/63 28} 90. Ke6 Ke4 {0.00/26 14} 91. Ke7 Bxg6 {0.00/27 22} 92.
f8=Q {rules infraction} 1/2-1/2
easy draw; if g4 pawn is missing, black wins.

[d]3n1b2/p1n1k2p/1p6/5b2/7P/1P1PP1P1/P1P1K3/R3R3 w - - 0 1

this one is seemingly a bit more interesting.

white on move, black wins.

Rybka 4: 100cps white edge
Houdini 3: 70cps white edge
latest SF and Komodo: 0.0, Komodo even slightly prefers white
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

[d]2r4r/4q1k1/8/4p3/4P3/4BB1P/3P1NP1/3NK3 b - - 0 1

black to play and... draw

SF says 500cps black edge, Komodo is more conservative with 250cps or so.

of course, you need no fortress detection of any kind here, just score well imbalance, score appropriately defence among pieces, as all white pieces defend each other very well, score minor on square adjacent to the own king, and the objective score becomes 0.0.

however, engines like to score only attacks, captures, and that is the result, SF even resigns in Fritz gui in completely equal position!

of course, if white starts pushing pawns to create advanced passers, black can easily win this, so white should simply move around, sticking to the fortress. as anyone could quickly guess, engines start implementing here precisely the wrong plan for white, so, if a macth is run, black could easily win more than half of the games, starting from a completely drawn position.

so much for match stats and objective game outcomes.
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

one more, to round off the topic:

[d]1nb1k3/8/8/8/8/8/PP1PP1PP/4K3 w - - 0 1

Komodo and SF give very small, 10-15cps black edge, but I suppose black has very good winning chances.

if KBN barely mate, and KBN vs 6 pawns is also barely a mate, then 6 pawns/passers seemingly do not matter at all.
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User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Nordlandia »

[d]r1bqk1r1/ppp1pp1p/3p2pB/8/2B5/2N5/PPP1NPPP/R3K2R w KQq - 0 11

[d]2k2r2/pp1brp1p/2p5/3p2p1/8/1NN5/PPP3PP/2KR1B2 w - - 0 22

[d]2k2q2/pp1b1p1p/2p5/3p2p1/3N4/2N4P/PPP3P1/2K1RB2 b - - 0 22

[pgn][Event "EXPERT-PC, Rapid 30m+30s"]
[Site "EXPERT-PC"]
[Date "2017.01.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext"]
[Black "Komodo 10.3 64-bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Annotator "-0.09;0.00"]
[PlyCount "61"]
[EventDate "2017.??.??"]
[EventType "rapid"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Bc4 Bg7 5. Qe2 Nc6 6. e5 Nxd4 7. exf6 Nxe2 8.
fxg7 Rg8 9. Ngxe2 Rxg7 10. Bh6 Rg8 11. O-O-O {-0.09/30 146} c6 {0.00/29 43} 12.
Rhe1 {-0.09/30 125} g5 {0.00/36 85} 13. f4 {-0.09/29 2} Qa5 {0.00/35 158} 14.
Nd4 {-0.09/29 80} d5 {0.00/37 87 (Bg4)} 15. f5 {0.02/27 104 (Bf1)} Bd7 {
-0.47/34 69} 16. f6 {-0.35/30 167} O-O-O {-0.50/34 44} 17. fxe7 {-0.40/30 76}
Rde8 {-0.55/35 43} 18. Bf1 {-0.53/30 105} Qc5 {-0.66/37 254} 19. Bf8 {-0.47/28
138} Rgxf8 {-0.67/35 47} 20. exf8=B {-0.38/28 98 (Nb3)} (20. Nb3 $5 Qxe7 21.
Rxe7 Rxe7) 20... Qxf8 {-0.76/35 36} 21. h3 {-0.56/30 117 (Be2)} (21. Rxe8+ Qxe8
) 21... Rxe1 {-0.86/32 52} 22. Rxe1 {-0.63/29 199} Qd6 {-0.86/36 170} 23. Nb3 {
-0.49/28 83} g4 {-0.98/32 48} 24. Re2 {-0.73/30 112} h5 {-1.04/36 113} 25. Nd2
{-0.71/26 26} f5 {-1.08/35 41} 26. a4 {-0.78/28 125 (Rf2)} Kc7 {-1.36/34 69}
27. Nd1 {-0.88/30 152 (Rf2)} f4 {-1.34/35 116} 28. hxg4 {-1.03/29 116} hxg4 {
-1.42/37 37} 29. Re1 {-1.19/30 154} Bf5 {-1.42/35 49} 30. Nc3 {-1.00/30 38} Qg6
{-1.92/37 90 (a6)} 31. Re7+ {-1.56/29 164 (Ne2) adjud.} 0-1

[/pgn]Lichess Analysis - https://en.lichess.org/Q6TELlgm
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Nordlandia wrote:[d]r1bqk1r1/ppp1pp1p/3p2pB/8/2B5/2N5/PPP1NPPP/R3K2R w KQq - 0 11

[d]2k2r2/pp1brp1p/2p5/3p2p1/8/1NN5/PPP3PP/2KR1B2 w - - 0 22

[d]2k2q2/pp1b1p1p/2p5/3p2p1/3N4/2N4P/PPP3P1/2K1RB2 b - - 0 22

[pgn][Event "EXPERT-PC, Rapid 30m+30s"]
[Site "EXPERT-PC"]
[Date "2017.01.12"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext"]
[Black "Komodo 10.3 64-bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Annotator "-0.09;0.00"]
[PlyCount "61"]
[EventDate "2017.??.??"]
[EventType "rapid"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Bc4 Bg7 5. Qe2 Nc6 6. e5 Nxd4 7. exf6 Nxe2 8.
fxg7 Rg8 9. Ngxe2 Rxg7 10. Bh6 Rg8 11. O-O-O {-0.09/30 146} c6 {0.00/29 43} 12.
Rhe1 {-0.09/30 125} g5 {0.00/36 85} 13. f4 {-0.09/29 2} Qa5 {0.00/35 158} 14.
Nd4 {-0.09/29 80} d5 {0.00/37 87 (Bg4)} 15. f5 {0.02/27 104 (Bf1)} Bd7 {
-0.47/34 69} 16. f6 {-0.35/30 167} O-O-O {-0.50/34 44} 17. fxe7 {-0.40/30 76}
Rde8 {-0.55/35 43} 18. Bf1 {-0.53/30 105} Qc5 {-0.66/37 254} 19. Bf8 {-0.47/28
138} Rgxf8 {-0.67/35 47} 20. exf8=B {-0.38/28 98 (Nb3)} (20. Nb3 $5 Qxe7 21.
Rxe7 Rxe7) 20... Qxf8 {-0.76/35 36} 21. h3 {-0.56/30 117 (Be2)} (21. Rxe8+ Qxe8
) 21... Rxe1 {-0.86/32 52} 22. Rxe1 {-0.63/29 199} Qd6 {-0.86/36 170} 23. Nb3 {
-0.49/28 83} g4 {-0.98/32 48} 24. Re2 {-0.73/30 112} h5 {-1.04/36 113} 25. Nd2
{-0.71/26 26} f5 {-1.08/35 41} 26. a4 {-0.78/28 125 (Rf2)} Kc7 {-1.36/34 69}
27. Nd1 {-0.88/30 152 (Rf2)} f4 {-1.34/35 116} 28. hxg4 {-1.03/29 116} hxg4 {
-1.42/37 37} 29. Re1 {-1.19/30 154} Bf5 {-1.42/35 49} 30. Nc3 {-1.00/30 38} Qg6
{-1.92/37 90 (a6)} 31. Re7+ {-1.56/29 164 (Ne2) adjud.} 0-1

[/pgn]Lichess Analysis - https://en.lichess.org/Q6TELlgm
on the main diagram, black migth have some advantage, but, in the gameline, why not 24.hg4, and black can hardly win that, white can even already have a small edge?

btw., very dubious opening played by white, and for black already 2...Bg7 is much better than 2...Nf6, although Nf6 migth be considered the more theoretical line.
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User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Nordlandia »

Image

Code: Select all

1k6/8/B2q1p2/2pPp3/Q5Pp/1P2P2P/7r/1K6 w - - 0 1
Lichess Analysis - https://en.lichess.org/V2IMIbcD
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User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Nordlandia »

[pgn][Event "Amsterdam VSB"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Anand, Viswanathan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A04"]
[WhiteElo "2775"]
[BlackElo "2725"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r3nk2/4ppb1/6p1/2q4p/1R3P2/8/6PP/3RQB1K w - - 0 30"]
[PlyCount "158"]
[EventDate "1996.??.??"]

30. Rb5 Qc3 31. Qe4 Rc8 32. Rb7 Bf6 33. f5 g5 34. Rbb1 Nd6 35. Qd3 Qe5 36. Qe2
Qc5 37. Re1 h4 38. Qf3 Qxf5 39. Bd3 Qxf3 40. gxf3 Rc3 41. Rbd1 Ra3 42. Kg2 Ra5
43. Re2 e6 44. Rc1 Be5 45. Rc6 Ke7 46. Ra6 Rd5 47. Ra3 Kf6 48. Rb3 Ra5 49. Rc2
Ra4 50. Re2 Ra5 51. Kh3 Bf4 52. Kg2 Ne8 53. Rb7 Ra3 54. Bh7 Nd6 55. Rb4 Rc3 56.
Rc2 Re3 57. Rf2 Re1 58. Rb1 Re3 59. Rb4 Kg7 60. Bc2 Ne8 61. Rb3 Re1 62. Rb1 Re5
63. Rb7 Rc5 64. Re2 Nd6 65. Rd7 Kf6 66. Bh7 Nc4 67. Rd3 Ne5 68. Rb3 Kg7 69. Be4
Rc1 70. Bb1 Rc8 71. Bc2 h3+ 72. Kxh3 Nc6 73. Rc3 Rh8+ 74. Kg2 Nd4 75. Rf2 Rxh2+
76. Kf1 Rh1+ 77. Kg2 Rc1 78. Rc4 Be3 79. Rxd4 Bxd4 80. Re2 Kf6 81. Kh2 Ra1 82.
Kg2 Rg1+ 83. Kh2 g4 84. Rg2 Rc1 85. Kg3 gxf3 86. Kxf3 Ke5 87. Re2+ Kd6 88. Rd2
Ke7 89. Re2 Bc5 90. Kg2 Bd6 91. Bb3 Rc3 92. Ba2 Bf4 93. Bb1 Kf6 94. Ba2 e5 95.
Rb2 Kg6 96. Rb6+ f6 97. Bb1+ Kg5 98. Rb8 Kg4 99. Rg8+ Bg5 100. Rf8 Rb3 101. Bg6
Rb2+ 102. Kf1 Kf3 103. Bh5+ Kf4 104. Bg6 e4 105. Re8 f5 106. Rf8 Rb5 107. Bh7
Kg4 108. Bg6 e3 0-1

[/pgn]

Code: Select all

r3nk2/4ppb1/6p1/2q4p/1R3P2/8/6PP/3RQB1K w - - 0 30
Lichess Analysis - https://nb.lichess.org/k4ncV2dn
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duncan
Posts: 12038
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:50 pm

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by duncan »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:[d]2r4r/4q1k1/8/4p3/4P3/4BB1P/3P1NP1/3NK3 b - - 0 1

black to play and... draw

SF says 500cps black edge, Komodo is more conservative with 250cps or so.

of course, you need no fortress detection of any kind here, just score well imbalance, score appropriately defence among pieces, as all white pieces defend each other very well, score minor on square adjacent to the own king, and the objective score becomes 0.0.

however, engines like to score only attacks, captures, and that is the result, SF even resigns in Fritz gui in completely equal position!

of course, if white starts pushing pawns to create advanced passers, black can easily win this, so white should simply move around, sticking to the fortress. as anyone could quickly guess, engines start implementing here precisely the wrong plan for white, so, if a macth is run, black could easily win more than half of the games, starting from a completely drawn position.

so much for match stats and objective game outcomes.
what is white meant to do in this position.? or should white have avoided getting in this position. ?

[d]6k1/8/8/4p3/1q2P3/4BB1P/r1rP1NP1/3NK3 w - - 0 1
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User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Fascinating imbalance

Post by Nordlandia »

duncan wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:[d]2r4r/4q1k1/8/4p3/4P3/4BB1P/3P1NP1/3NK3 b - - 0 1

black to play and... draw

SF says 500cps black edge, Komodo is more conservative with 250cps or so.

of course, you need no fortress detection of any kind here, just score well imbalance, score appropriately defence among pieces, as all white pieces defend each other very well, score minor on square adjacent to the own king, and the objective score becomes 0.0.

however, engines like to score only attacks, captures, and that is the result, SF even resigns in Fritz gui in completely equal position!

of course, if white starts pushing pawns to create advanced passers, black can easily win this, so white should simply move around, sticking to the fortress. as anyone could quickly guess, engines start implementing here precisely the wrong plan for white, so, if a macth is run, black could easily win more than half of the games, starting from a completely drawn position.

so much for match stats and objective game outcomes.
what is white meant to do in this position.? or should white have avoided getting in this position. ?

[d]6k1/8/8/4p3/1q2P3/4BB1P/r1rP1NP1/3NK3 w - - 0 1
Obviously black wins by zugzwang :arrow: Once the knight repeat the king infiltrates the white camp.

[pgn][Event "Chiron 4 Testing, Rapid 30m+30s"]
[Site "DESKTOP-DD1B2QU"]
[Date "2017.01.22"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 210117 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Komodo 10.3 64-bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6k1/8/8/4p3/1q2P3/4BB1P/r1rP1NP1/3NK3 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "14"]

1. Kf1 Rxd2 2. Bxd2 Qxd2 3. h4 Kh8 4. h5 Qd4 5. Be2 Kh7 6. Ng4 Qd2 7. Bf3 Ra1
0-1

[/pgn]
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