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Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces
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Sven Schüle



Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3528
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPost subject: Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces    Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:55 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ed Trice wrote:
Sven Schüle wrote:
The key problem of ignoring it is that this can lead to "infinite winning attempts". If you have two choices to play a winning move and you always take the one with the longer distance to win then playing the game based on that strategy will *fail* to actually deliver the win...

A similar point applies to lost positions, here in conjunction with limiting rules like the 50-moves rule: if you have two choices which both lose the game but you always choose the quicker loss then you may miss the opportunity to draw by postponing the loss long enough so that the 50-moves rule will apply.


Thank you for demonstrating that you have no idea what you are talking about. Now I don't have to reply to any more of your posts.

With Perfect Play databases, you do the exact opposite of what you mentioned, nullifying whatever points you were trying to make in that pontification of noisey diatribe above.

When in a winning position, you pick the move leading to the quickest loss for the opponent, thereby winning most quickly.

When in a losing position, you pick the move leading to the longest win for the opponent, thereby losing most slowly.

The program announces the distance remaining along the way. Its play is perfect and irrefutable.

Ed, I absolutely agree but I don't see where I wrote something different than you? Would you mind to read my post once again? I am *very* sure that you misunderstood my point, completely. The point was: using WDL only, instead of DTM, can lead to infinite winning attempts (in a won position), or to missing a 50-moves draw (in a lost position that needs more than 50 moves for the opponent to win).

I think we both have a similar position in this topic, so it is not necessary to be aggressive (and you can be sure that I know how DTM works).
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Subject Author Date/Time
Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:13 pm
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Gerd Isenberg Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:04 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:43 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:45 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Vladimir Medvedev Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:52 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:11 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Gerd Isenberg Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:46 pm
                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:08 pm
                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:24 pm
                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:30 pm
                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:22 pm
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:51 pm
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:26 am
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:42 am
                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:02 am
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Dann Corbit Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:26 am
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:57 am
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:53 pm
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:55 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:23 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:36 pm
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces J. Wesley Cleveland Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:08 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:05 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:45 pm
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:13 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:55 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:03 am
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:38 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:25 am
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:31 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:16 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:55 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:49 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces J. Wesley Cleveland Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Roch Manilla Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:32 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:44 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Greg Simpson Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:04 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Greg Simpson Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Martin Sedlak Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:35 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:31 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Daniel Anulliero Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:21 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Richard Delorme Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Jon Fredrik Åsvang Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:04 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:19 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:56 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:23 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Michael B Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:54 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:51 pm
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:10 am
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:29 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:12 pm
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:43 am
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:03 am
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:21 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:50 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:08 am
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Krzysztof Grzelak Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:37 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:16 pm
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