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Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces
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Ed Trice



Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Posts: 99

PostPost subject: Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces    Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:14 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

Cardoso wrote:
That's what I like in DTW TBs, instant play.
Also at interior nodes, in a win/loss position just returning the DTW value adjusted to the current ply is so simple.
Another really great thing I like is that you can generate a very long pv by probing repeatedly the DTW TB until the final winning position.
All you need is an initial long enough pv that terminates in a position that is on the DTW TBs , and from there you can continue appending the "best" moves found in the TBs, really really great. Sometimes you get spectacularly long pvs even when the root position has several pieces more than your TBs.
You can't do that with WDL TBs only.
What I don't like is poor compression ratio, and to a less extent generation time wich is bigger than WDL TBs.
As I said in another post my first attempt to generating TBs for the portuguese variation of the game was the DTW flavor, only later I did the WDL, so currently I have the 9man WDL (14GB) and the 8man DTW (46GB), all using the leading checker (not rank) subdivision and both compressed and with the option to load them into RAM or using memory mapped files.

best regards,
Alvaro


Hi Alvaro,

I am still writing the access code for searching DTW during the play of the game. Right now all I can do is print out the solutions with my console app.

I did gather some stats.

I have 148,193,593,345 Distance To Win positions solved. This represents all of the 4x4 for 8-pieces + every 7-piece or fewer combination, including 6x1.

There are 25,735 positions that need 16-bits. So I have:

1.000000347315959 bytes per position without using compression.

The lookup is instantaneous though, even faster than the move generator, so my nodes/second will never drop when accessing the uncompressed databases.

I do have some db-9 and db-10 results so far for DTW:


White to move wins in 175-ply


White to move wins in 291-ply. The white checker crowns at the bottom.

I need more storage to continue, so for now I'm working on trying to design the GUI for it.

I'd like to see some of the longest wins in your variant. I'll have to look up the rules for your game and see the differences.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:13 pm
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Gerd Isenberg Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:04 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:43 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:45 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Vladimir Medvedev Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:52 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:11 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Gerd Isenberg Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:46 pm
                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:08 pm
                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:24 pm
                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:30 pm
                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:22 pm
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:51 pm
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:26 am
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:42 am
                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:02 am
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Dann Corbit Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:26 am
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:57 am
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:53 pm
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:55 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:23 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:36 pm
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces J. Wesley Cleveland Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:08 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:05 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:45 pm
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:13 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:55 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:03 am
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:38 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:25 am
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:31 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:16 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:55 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:49 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces J. Wesley Cleveland Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Roch Manilla Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:32 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:44 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Greg Simpson Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:04 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Greg Simpson Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Martin Sedlak Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:35 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:31 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Daniel Anulliero Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:21 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Richard Delorme Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Jon Fredrik Åsvang Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:04 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:19 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:56 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:23 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Michael B Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:54 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:51 pm
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:10 am
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:29 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:12 pm
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:43 am
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:03 am
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:21 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:50 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:08 am
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Krzysztof Grzelak Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:37 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:16 pm
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