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Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces
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Michael B



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 2488
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

PostPost subject: Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces    Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:39 am Reply to topic Reply with quote

Ed Trice wrote:
Cardoso wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, I only now noticed your posts, and I'm still at work.
About your Endgame Premonition Algorithm, looks interesting, I'll give it a try when I have the time.
About testing very distant winning positions with the loosing side against programs with only WDL, no I never tested that. The only other program for spanish checkers with EGTBs is Aurora, it has WDL+MTC and I don't have that program.
But I imagine there are positions in the spanish checkers variant where Profound + DTW tbs playing the loosing side could draw against Profound using only WDL, because it would be hard to make progress using only WDL.
Anyway your checkers variant has longer DTW lines.
But there are ways to make an engine with WDL only to make progress torwards the win, like giving bonus to advance men, bonus for promotions, and bonus for exchanging pieces to reach lower piece count endgames.
I have some of that but they are rudimentary, I never explored that because I fall in love with DTW tbs from the very beginning Smile

best regards,
Alvaro


I also created an Aggressive Draw Heuristic. Every draw it encounters for the opponent gets a score between +122 to -122 (I use 1 checker = 500, 1 King = 650) where a low score indicates a higher percentage of moves draw and a high score means fewer moves draw. It can find positions where only 1 move out of 25 choices draw!

I don't evaluate draws where there are jumps, or for the same side as the program (no need to do this if you think about it).

I'm working on speeding this up a bit by putting the results in its own hash table.


Ed - thanks for sharing, just curious as to what your endgame is here ( no pun intended Very Happy ) , is it simply along the lines of I can do this which nobody else has ever done or you are planning to enter the checkers software market with a new engine , I guess it could be many different reasons. Regardless, I find it very interesting and appreciate you sharing what you are doing.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:13 pm
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Gerd Isenberg Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:04 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:43 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:45 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Vladimir Medvedev Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:52 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:11 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Gerd Isenberg Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:46 pm
                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:08 pm
                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:24 pm
                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:30 pm
                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:22 pm
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:51 pm
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:26 am
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:42 am
                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:02 am
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Dann Corbit Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:26 am
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:57 am
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:53 pm
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:55 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:23 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:36 pm
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces J. Wesley Cleveland Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:08 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:05 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:45 pm
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:13 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:55 am
                                                                              Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:03 am
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:38 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:25 am
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:31 pm
                                                                                    Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:16 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:55 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:49 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces J. Wesley Cleveland Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:56 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Roch Manilla Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:32 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:44 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Greg Simpson Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:04 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:27 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Greg Simpson Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Martin Sedlak Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:35 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:31 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Daniel Anulliero Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:21 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Richard Delorme Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Jon Fredrik Åsvang Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:37 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:04 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:52 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:19 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:20 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:56 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:23 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:31 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Michael B Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:58 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:33 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:54 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:23 am
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:18 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Rein Halbersma Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:51 pm
                                                            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:10 am
                                                                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Sven Schüle Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:29 pm
                                                                        Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ronald de Man Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:12 pm
                                                Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Álvaro Begué Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:43 am
                                                      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:03 am
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Alvaro Cardoso Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:21 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:50 pm
                  Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:08 am
      Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Krzysztof Grzelak Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:37 pm
            Re: Checkers Is Strongly-Solved for 8-pieces Ed Trice Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:16 pm
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