Mine is probably not as fast, about 550 MB/Sec. Some of those m.2 gumsticks are absurdly fast (3 or 4 times faster than mine).Nordlandia wrote:It's wrong to draw conclusions bases on few blitz games, but in my case -5 do seem reasonable.Dann Corbit wrote:What depth worked best?Nordlandia wrote:Houdini 5.01 performs better in the famous Spassky vs Fischer endgame position if EGTB Probe Depth is adjusted.
I tried -10 and -5 on my brand new Samsung 960 EVO.
If syzygy is stored on M.2 SSD or equivalent, default Probe Depth is probably not correct setting for H5.1.
I have a big SSD also.
Houdart argues that he don't like the speed penalty for probing tablebases, therby intelligent probing technique in Houdini 5.
For fast m.2 ssd, sweetspot is definitely between 0 and -10 somewhere.
6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
Kai, I have an Intel SSD SATA drive in one computer and a PCI card SSD drive in another. I also have 128GB & 256GB USB 3.0 thumb drives.
I have run 6 man Syzygy tablebases completely on SSD on both machines and compared the speed in late middle game positions against no tablebases at all. I see no significant difference in NPS with or without. In fact the IOPs are not high enough to believe that some of the new super fast SSD cards would make any difference over mine.
I have also run tests with all the tablebases on the 256GB USB 3.0 thumb drive as well as the WDL tables on the 128GB thumb drive and the DTZ tables on regular old spinning disk. Again, no significant difference between either configuration or pure SSD or no tablebases.
That said, I should also say that my machines have 32GB & 24GB or RAM respectively and I typically analyze with 8GB of hash leaving quite a bit free.
So from my prospective all the anxiety about accessing flash over USB 3.0 or splitting the WDL/DTZ files between flash and hard drive is overblown.
My two cents,
Mike
P.S. I also don't play bullet games. I'm talking about analysis (minute per move or more). So spin up to caching means nothing. Perhaps if you are playing game in 10 seconds the impact would be significant as nothing would be cached before the game is over.
I have run 6 man Syzygy tablebases completely on SSD on both machines and compared the speed in late middle game positions against no tablebases at all. I see no significant difference in NPS with or without. In fact the IOPs are not high enough to believe that some of the new super fast SSD cards would make any difference over mine.
I have also run tests with all the tablebases on the 256GB USB 3.0 thumb drive as well as the WDL tables on the 128GB thumb drive and the DTZ tables on regular old spinning disk. Again, no significant difference between either configuration or pure SSD or no tablebases.
That said, I should also say that my machines have 32GB & 24GB or RAM respectively and I typically analyze with 8GB of hash leaving quite a bit free.
So from my prospective all the anxiety about accessing flash over USB 3.0 or splitting the WDL/DTZ files between flash and hard drive is overblown.
My two cents,
Mike
P.S. I also don't play bullet games. I'm talking about analysis (minute per move or more). So spin up to caching means nothing. Perhaps if you are playing game in 10 seconds the impact would be significant as nothing would be cached before the game is over.
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
I will measure NPS with long times on a set of positions and report. I only have 8 GB of RAM total.mbabigian wrote:Kai, I have an Intel SSD SATA drive in one computer and a PCI card SSD drive in another. I also have 128GB & 256GB USB 3.0 thumb drives.
I have run 6 man Syzygy tablebases completely on SSD on both machines and compared the speed in late middle game positions against no tablebases at all. I see no significant difference in NPS with or without. In fact the IOPs are not high enough to believe that some of the new super fast SSD cards would make any difference over mine.
I have also run tests with all the tablebases on the 256GB USB 3.0 thumb drive as well as the WDL tables on the 128GB thumb drive and the DTZ tables on regular old spinning disk. Again, no significant difference between either configuration or pure SSD or no tablebases.
That said, I should also say that my machines have 32GB & 24GB or RAM respectively and I typically analyze with 8GB of hash leaving quite a bit free.
So from my prospective all the anxiety about accessing flash over USB 3.0 or splitting the WDL/DTZ files between flash and hard drive is overblown.
My two cents,
Mike
P.S. I also don't play bullet games. I'm talking about analysis (minute per move or more). So spin up to caching means nothing. Perhaps if you are playing game in 10 seconds the impact would be significant as nothing would be cached before the game is over.
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
I look forward to seeing your figures.
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
From 50 endgame positions with 30 seconds per position, I am experiencing a huge slowdown for small Probe Depths, to the point that using WDL+DTZ from HDD is practically rendered useless strength-wise. It seems time control doesn't matter too much, and choosing Probed Depth = 24 for HDD and = 12 for HDD+USB 3.0 was fine. Here are kNPS for these runs:mbabigian wrote:I look forward to seeing your figures.
Code: Select all
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Komodo 10.4 1024 MB Hash 4 threads 30s/position 50 poistions
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No Syzygy:
kNPS:
9823
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Syzygy-6 WDL+DTZ on HDD
Probe Depth kNPS
2 1077
12 2019
18 4318
24 7119
30 9273
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Syzygy-6 DTZ on HDD; WDL on USB 3.0
Probe Depth kNPS
2 3418
6 5812
12 8514
18 9779
-----------------------------------------
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
I took 100 longest 6 piece positions and check if engines can convert win with 5 piece syzygy (there can be 50 move draws). SF scored 79, Houdini 72 and Komodo 70. But Houdini 5.01 made illegal moves in some positions repeteably in Fritz GUI:
[D]RNN5/2k5/p7/8/8/8/K7/8 w - - 0 2
Here Houdini 5.01 wants to play Kxc8 I have seen Houdini doing illegal moves previously in Fritz GUI also.
[D]RNN5/2k5/p7/8/8/8/K7/8 w - - 0 2
Here Houdini 5.01 wants to play Kxc8 I have seen Houdini doing illegal moves previously in Fritz GUI also.
Jouni
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
Yep, WDL on HDD is awful. Flash + some memory for caching and you are in business.
I've never changed the probe depth from the defaults. Good info.
Mike
I've never changed the probe depth from the defaults. Good info.
Mike
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
Houdini 5.01 performs better in certain engames if EGTB Probe Depth is adjusted.mbabigian wrote:Yep, WDL on HDD is awful. Flash + some memory for caching and you are in business.
I've never changed the probe depth from the defaults. Good info.
Mike
Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD.
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
What GUI version is it? Under Deep Fritz 14 and Fritz 15 - both x64 - I see nothing but the single-move PV 2.Nxa6, with either 5- or 6-men Syzygy.Jouni wrote:Houdini 5.01 made illegal moves in some positions repeteably in Fritz GUI:
[D]RNN5/2k5/p7/8/8/8/K7/8 w - - 0 2
Here Houdini 5.01 wants to play Kxc8 :?: :!: I have seen Houdini doing illegal moves previously in Fritz GUI also.
A statement so vague as to be meaningless.Nordlandia wrote:Houdini 5.01 performs better in certain engames if EGTB Probe Depth is adjusted.
What are the measure and the extent of "better"?
What kind of endgames?
Adjusted to what values?
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Re: 6-men Syzygy from HDD and USB 3.0
Do latency caused by probing via USB 3.0 affect overall performance?
SSD connected via SATA III vs SSD connected via USB 3.0.
My initial observation is that USB 3.0 probing inflict conspicuous less TB Hits.
Probing 5-men via SSD trough USB 3.0 is fine. Probing 6-men is another story.
SSD connected via SATA III vs SSD connected via USB 3.0.
My initial observation is that USB 3.0 probing inflict conspicuous less TB Hits.
Probing 5-men via SSD trough USB 3.0 is fine. Probing 6-men is another story.