[d]7k/p5p1/1pn4p/3R4/2P5/1P6/P6P/3K2b1 w - - 0 2
[d]8/p4kp1/1pn4p/2nR4/2P5/1PK5/P6P/8 w - - 0 1
[d]2kq4/1b6/p5p1/1p2p2p/1b6/6N1/PPP4P/1KQ2R2 b - - 0 31
Position vs Houdini 4 Pro
[d]2kr4/1b3q2/p5p1/1p2p2p/1b5B/6N1/PPP4P/1KQ2R2 b - - 0 29
v3q1rk1/1b3ppp/p3pb2/8/2pP1Q2/2N5/PP3PPP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 19
Fascinating imbalance
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
Re: Fascinating imbalance
Position is approximately in balance.
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
-
- Posts: 6052
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm
Re: Fascinating imbalance
black wins both.Nordlandia wrote:Position is approximately in balance.
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
Re: Fascinating imbalance
[d]2rq1bk1/p4pp1/1p5p/8/3P4/3N1B2/PP3PPP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 24
[d]1r1r2k1/1p4pp/pQ2bp2/3p4/P3n3/4P2P/1P4P1/3RB1K1 b - - 0 23
[d]1r1r2k1/1p4pp/pQ2bp2/3p4/P3n3/4P2P/1P4P1/3RB1K1 b - - 0 23
-
- Posts: 937
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:29 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: Fascinating imbalance
The second position looks somewhat strange compared to the first one.Nordlandia wrote:Position is approximately in balance.
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
What was White's last move here?
I'm asking because Bh6 followed by Qf6 looks deadly.
Jörg Oster
-
- Posts: 6052
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm
Re: Fascinating imbalance
yeah, f6, followed by Rf7 and Rae8, is the only move, that not only saves, but also wins the game.Joerg Oster wrote:The second position looks somewhat strange compared to the first one.Nordlandia wrote:Position is approximately in balance.
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
What was White's last move here?
I'm asking because Bh6 followed by Qf6 looks deadly.
-
- Posts: 937
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:29 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: Fascinating imbalance
What's your point?Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:yeah, f6, followed by Rf7 and Rae8, is the only move, that not only saves, but also wins the game.Joerg Oster wrote:The second position looks somewhat strange compared to the first one.Nordlandia wrote:Position is approximately in balance.
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
What was White's last move here?
I'm asking because Bh6 followed by Qf6 looks deadly.
After f6 White simply captures the rook on f8 and has the better winning chances!
Edit: the difference between the first position (White to move!) and the second position (Black to move!) is black has moved g6. Hence my question about White's last move.
Jörg Oster
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
Re: Fascinating imbalance
White is ahead 1.15 according SF9 Dev.
How to continue for white?
[d]2r2rk1/p3pp1p/1p4p1/8/1Pnb4/1R3BP1/P3QP1P/7K w - - 0 31
Any plans for white?
[d]2R5/p3pkbp/3rpnp1/r2p4/3P4/6PB/2Q1PPKP/8 b - - 0 25
[d]2r1r1k1/pp5p/4pbp1/3pn3/8/1P2P1PP/4BP2/1QR3K1 b - - 0 26
How to continue for white?
[d]2r2rk1/p3pp1p/1p4p1/8/1Pnb4/1R3BP1/P3QP1P/7K w - - 0 31
Any plans for white?
[d]2R5/p3pkbp/3rpnp1/r2p4/3P4/6PB/2Q1PPKP/8 b - - 0 25
[d]2r1r1k1/pp5p/4pbp1/3pn3/8/1P2P1PP/4BP2/1QR3K1 b - - 0 26
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
Re: Fascinating imbalance
[d]3rr1k1/p4ppp/4p3/3nP3/2pP2QP/P2b4/3B2P1/2R3K1 b - - 0 29
+ 0.70 is trivial
[d]2r5/2p1ppkp/1r1b2p1/p1n5/P7/2P1QBP1/3R1PKP/8 b - - 0 27
[d]r1b3k1/1p3rpp/p3p3/3nBpQ1/8/1P4P1/1P3P1P/3R2K1 w - - 0 33
[d]4nk2/2rQ1pp1/7p/1pr1p3/4Pb1P/pB5P/P4P2/6RK w - - 0 42
[d]rn1r2k1/1p3p1p/2p1p1p1/b7/2Q2P2/6P1/P4PBP/5RK1 w - - 0 20
-0.70
[d]2rr2k1/pp2bpp1/4p2p/3n4/3P4/1B3Q2/P4PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 25
[d]2r5/p2r1p1k/4pbp1/1Rp2np1/2P5/Q4BP1/4PP1P/6K1 w - - 0 30
[d]2k2r1r/2b2p2/pp2p1pp/2n5/4B3/2P4Q/P4PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 25
[d]4rbk1/1r4pp/pp1p1p2/3P2nP/P4Q2/1P6/2P3B1/5RK1 b - - 0 36
[d]3r2k1/p2r1pp1/Qp3b1p/4p3/3nB3/P7/1P3PPP/2R3K1 w - - 0 32
+ 0.70 is trivial
[d]2r5/2p1ppkp/1r1b2p1/p1n5/P7/2P1QBP1/3R1PKP/8 b - - 0 27
[d]r1b3k1/1p3rpp/p3p3/3nBpQ1/8/1P4P1/1P3P1P/3R2K1 w - - 0 33
[d]4nk2/2rQ1pp1/7p/1pr1p3/4Pb1P/pB5P/P4P2/6RK w - - 0 42
[d]rn1r2k1/1p3p1p/2p1p1p1/b7/2Q2P2/6P1/P4PBP/5RK1 w - - 0 20
-0.70
[d]2rr2k1/pp2bpp1/4p2p/3n4/3P4/1B3Q2/P4PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 25
[d]2r5/p2r1p1k/4pbp1/1Rp2np1/2P5/Q4BP1/4PP1P/6K1 w - - 0 30
[d]2k2r1r/2b2p2/pp2p1pp/2n5/4B3/2P4Q/P4PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 25
[d]4rbk1/1r4pp/pp1p1p2/3P2nP/P4Q2/1P6/2P3B1/5RK1 b - - 0 36
[d]3r2k1/p2r1pp1/Qp3b1p/4p3/3nB3/P7/1P3PPP/2R3K1 w - - 0 32
-
- Posts: 6052
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm
Re: Fascinating imbalance
no one said those 2 have arisen from the same game.Joerg Oster wrote:What's your point?Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:yeah, f6, followed by Rf7 and Rae8, is the only move, that not only saves, but also wins the game.Joerg Oster wrote:The second position looks somewhat strange compared to the first one.Nordlandia wrote:Position is approximately in balance.
[d]r4rk1/pb3ppp/1p2p3/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 w - - 0 19
[d]r4rk1/pb3p1p/1p2p1p1/8/2nP3Q/2P5/P4PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 20
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "36"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
(14. Re3) 14... Bb7 (14... Bd7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 {0.00/22 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 15.
Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 (16... Qf6 17. Rg4 g6 {-0.12/23 Deep Fritz 14 x64}) 17. Rh4
(17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4) 17... Qxh4 (17... Qxh4 18. Qxh4
Nxc4 {-0.13/30 Komodo 9.02 64-bit}) 18. Qxh4 Nxc4 *
[/pgn]
What was White's last move here?
I'm asking because Bh6 followed by Qf6 looks deadly.
After f6 White simply captures the rook on f8 and has the better winning chances!
Edit: the difference between the first position (White to move!) and the second position (Black to move!) is black has moved g6. Hence my question about White's last move.
even if so, double null move for one side could explain it:)
look more carefully, Joerg, on the second position, it is black's turn, and after f6 Bh6 Rf7 nothing could be captured on f8.
and yes, black wins both.