Here is the path to the second position ->
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "39"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
Bb7 15. Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4 *
[/pgn]
Fascinating imbalance
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
Thank you for clarifying.Nordlandia wrote:Here is the path to the second position ->
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "39"]
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e3 Nc6 7. Bc4 cxd4 8.
exd4 Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Re1 Nxc3 11. bxc3 b6 12. h4 Bxh4 13. Nxh4 Qxh4 14. Qf3
Bb7 15. Re4 Qd8 16. Qh5 Na5 17. Rg4 Nxc4 18. Qh6 g6 19. Rh4 Qxh4 20. Qxh4 *
[/pgn]
Because you posted both positions among each other caused some confusion on my side.
Jörg Oster
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
Sigh.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:no one said those 2 have arisen from the same game.
even if so, double null move for one side could explain it:)
look more carefully, Joerg, on the second position, it is black's turn, and after f6 Bh6 Rf7 nothing could be captured on f8.
That's why I asked for White's last move ...
and I think it was clear the given sequence of moves by me was for White to move.
I agree that for humans the black side is most likely easier to play,Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:and yes, black wins both.
but I don't think any side has noteable winning chances.
Yet I'm only a patzer, of course!
Jörg Oster
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
For example in this position -> opposite-colored bishops grants black more resistible play. It's harder for white to exploit the slight material advantage.Joerg Oster wrote:Sigh.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:no one said those 2 have arisen from the same game.
even if so, double null move for one side could explain it:)
look more carefully, Joerg, on the second position, it is black's turn, and after f6 Bh6 Rf7 nothing could be captured on f8.
That's why I asked for White's last move ...
and I think it was clear the given sequence of moves by me was for White to move.
I agree that for humans the black side is most likely easier to play,Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:and yes, black wins both.
but I don't think any side has noteable winning chances.
Yet I'm only a patzer, of course!
"It's easier to defend with opposite-colored bishops in general when an exchange down"
[d]2r3k1/2pn1ppp/p3p3/1p4B1/1PbP4/P5P1/5P1P/2R1R1K1 w - - 0 25
Same here ->
[d]2b1k2r/p4ppp/1pn1p3/3pP3/1R6/P7/P2B1PPP/5RK1 w k - 0 18
[d]3q1rk1/p4p1p/2Qp1b2/p1nP2p1/2P5/4P1P1/P5BP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 26
[d]6k1/1ppn1rpp/p1p5/5b2/8/BP4P1/P2R2P1/3R2K1 w - - 0 23
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
then try this simple rule on the framework(in order for the framework not to fully forget about me):Joerg Oster wrote:Sigh.Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:no one said those 2 have arisen from the same game.
even if so, double null move for one side could explain it:)
look more carefully, Joerg, on the second position, it is black's turn, and after f6 Bh6 Rf7 nothing could be captured on f8.
That's why I asked for White's last move ...
and I think it was clear the given sequence of moves by me was for White to move.
I agree that for humans the black side is most likely easier to play,Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:and yes, black wins both.
but I don't think any side has noteable winning chances.
Yet I'm only a patzer, of course!
if opposite-coloured bishops && one side having a piece more(black in above case), give bonus {50,50} (maybe 100,100 in the case of SF) for the side with a piece more.
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
White is ahead ~1.00, even though it's not easy for white to exploit the material advantage.
[d]5rk1/pp3p1p/3p1b2/2nP2p1/2P5/4P1P1/P5BP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 26
[d]5rk1/pp3p1p/3p1b2/2nP2p1/2P5/4P1P1/P5BP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 26
Code: Select all
4k3/1p4bp/r1n1p1p1/3p4/p2P4/4B3/PP3PPP/2RR1K2 b - - 0 0
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
quite the contrary: the first position is fully drawn, while the second is(more or less easily) won for white.Nordlandia wrote:White is ahead ~1.00, even though it's not easy for white to exploit the material advantage.
[d]5rk1/pp3p1p/3p1b2/2nP2p1/2P5/4P1P1/P5BP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 26
Code: Select all
4k3/1p4bp/r1n1p1p1/3p4/p2P4/4B3/PP3PPP/2RR1K2 b - - 0 0
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
This position is engine win with adequate time control.
[d]4k3/1p4bp/r1n1p1p1/3p4/p2P4/4B3/PP3PPP/2RR1K2 b - - 0 0
[d]4k3/1p4bp/r1n1p1p1/3p4/p2P4/4B3/PP3PPP/2RR1K2 b - - 0 0
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
What book are these positions being drawn from?
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Re: Fascinating imbalance
The last is from "The Exchange Sacrifice" by Sergey Kasparov.schack wrote:What book are these positions being drawn from?
Static evaluation: = 227 (0.92)
[d]r1b1kb1r/1p3ppp/1Rnp1n2/8/4P3/2N2P2/P1PQ2PP/4K2R b Kkq - 0 14
https://hxim.github.io/Stockfish-Evaluation-Guide/