Goldin vs Korzubov, Dushanbe 1980

[Nordlandia]

[d]6k1/pp3p2/6p1/3p4/2pN4/P1P2P1P/1P1qR1P1/6K1 b - - 0 1

This is assessed as engine draw with correct play.

Unfortunately H5 lost due to time troube.

What is your say on the outcome of this endgame?

Code: Select all

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/FmAXN1pDy.png

[pgn][Event "EXPERT-PC, Rapid 30m+30s"]
[Site "EXPERT-PC"]
[Date "2017.06.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext"]
[Black "Stockfish 210617 64 BMI2 BYO"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Annotator "-1.38;-1.74"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6k1/pp3p2/6p1/3p4/2pN4/P1P2P1P/1P1qR1P1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "119"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5960X CPU @ 3.00GHz 3000 MHz W=39.8 plies; 26 896kN/s;
10 059 402 TBAs B=54.2 plies; 22 837kN/s; 326 275 290 TBAs} 1... Qc1+ {-1.74/
46 199 Both last book move} 2. Kf2 {-1.38/33 96} Kg7 {-1.81/49 222} 3. Rc2 {
-1.44/33 145} Qb1 {-1.81/48 57} 4. Re2 {-1.51/35 59} Qc1 {-1.74/49 63 (a6)} 5.
Rc2 {-0.01/85 35} Qd1 {-1.60/51 80 (Qb1)} 6. Re2 {-1.50/37 115} Qa1 {-1.58/49
45} 7. Kg3 {-1.49/32 9 (Rd2)} Qf1 {-1.73/43 28 (Qg1)} 8. Re7 {-1.48/34 86 (Kf4)
} b6 {-1.52/52 105} 9. h4 {-1.48/31 54 (Re8)} Qh1 {-1.80/42 38 (a6)} 10. Re5 {
-1.48/33 62 (Re2)} a6 {-1.88/46 43} 11. Re3 {-1.48/37 74 (Re8)} Kf6 {-2.00/46
97 (b5)} 12. Re2 {-1.48/36 94 (Re8)} b5 {-1.82/52 119} 13. Nc2 {-1.54/37 104
(Kg4)} Qb1 {-1.82/53 42 (Qc1)} 14. Nd4 {-1.69/39 432} Qf1 {-1.82/53 9 (Qd1)}
15. Rf2 {-1.61/34 54 (Kg4)} Qe1 {-2.16/39 32} 16. Nc2 {-1.82/33 118 (f4)} Qe5+
{-2.16/50 51 (Qc1)} 17. Kh3 {-1.69/36 45 (f4)} a5 {-2.16/50 47} 18. g3 {
-1.69/37 14} Qf5+ {-2.16/52 13} 19. Kg2 {-1.69/39 47} Qd3 {-2.16/58 51} 20. Nd4
{-2.05/36 239} b4 {-2.16/61 17} 21. axb4 {-2.25/35 7} axb4 {-2.16/65 48} 22.
Rc2 {-2.25/38 37} Kg7 {-2.16/63 13} 23. Kf2 {-2.25/38 56} Qd1 {-2.16/63 63 (f5)
} 24. Kg2 {-2.25/32 38} Kf8 {-2.16/62 32 (f6)} 25. Kf2 {-2.32/36 58 (Re2)} Qh1
{-3.43/43 45 (f6)} 26. Ke3 {-2.46/35 65} Qg1+ {-3.43/53 52} 27. Kf4 {-2.47/34 1
} f6 {-3.43/58 14} 28. Kg4 {-2.61/37 62 (Ne6+)} Kf7 {-3.43/58 53} 29. Re2 {
-2.61/39 49 (Kf4)} Qc1 {-3.43/55 55} 30. Rc2 {-2.61/38 1} f5+ {-3.43/54 15
(Qa1)} 31. Kh3 {-2.76/37 208} Qe1 {-3.43/57 62 (Qh1+)} 32. Kg2 {-2.70/35 36
(Re2)} f4 {-3.43/59 58} 33. gxf4 {-2.70/35 17 (g4)} Qxh4 {-3.43/56 63} 34. f5 {
-2.70/36 38 (Ne2)} gxf5 {-3.43/58 67 (Qg5+)} 35. Re2 {-2.70/36 40} Qg5+ {
-3.43/57 54 (Qf4)} 36. Kh3 {-2.70/37 36} Qh6+ {-3.43/52 56 (f4)} 37. Kg2 {
-2.70/41 59} Qc1 {-3.43/63 56 (Qf6)} 38. Rc2 {-2.70/42 34} Qg5+ {-3.43/62 13}
39. Kf1 {-2.70/42 37 (Kf2)} Qe3 {-3.43/66 59 (Kf6)} 40. Kg2 {-2.70/42 34} Qh6 {
-3.43/64 76 (Kf6)} 41. Re2 {-0.01/85 8 (Kg3)} Qg6+ {-3.43/58 56 (Qf6)} 42. Kf1
{-2.70/41 86 (Kf2)} Qg5 {-3.43/66 70 (f4)} 43. Rc2 {-0.01/76 23} f4 {-3.43/67
50 (Kf6)} 44. Re2 {-2.70/42 67} Qg7 {-3.43/64 9 (Qg3)} 45. Rd2 {-2.70/39 33
(Rc2)} Qh6 {-3.43/60 78 (Qg6)} 46. Kg1 {-2.70/39 31 (Kg2)} Qg6+ {-3.43/58 45}
47. Kf1 {-2.70/42 51} Kf6 {-3.43/56 54} 48. Kf2 {-2.70/40 35} Qg3+ {-3.43/60
46 (Qg5)} 49. Kf1 {-2.70/41 31} Kf7 {-3.43/66 45 (Qh3+)} 50. Re2 {-2.70/42 35}
Kf6 {-3.43/62 43 (Qh3+)} 51. Rd2 {-0.01/65 17} Qg6 {-3.43/66 45 (Qh3+)} 52. Kf2
{-0.01/73 96} Ke5 {-3.43/64 28 (Qg5)} 53. Re2+ {-2.70/36 49 (Kf1)} Kd6 {
-3.43/65 45} 54. Rd2 {-2.70/36 29 (Kf1)} Qb1 {-4.78/52 138 (Qh5)} 55. Kg2 {
-2.70/35 23} Kc5 {-4.81/42 9 (Kc7)} 56. Re2 {-2.70/33 26} Qd1 {-5.79/40 32
(Qa1)} 57. Rc2 {-4.16/30 43} Kb6 {-8.07/41 131} 58. Rf2 {-4.55/31 30 (Re2)} Ka5
{-8.25/33 23 (Qd3)} 59. Rc2 {-5.27/31 30} Qe1 {-8.43/38 41 (Qd3)} 60. Re2 {
-5.16/30 18} Qa1 {-9.04/37 38 (Qb1) adjud.} 0-1

[/pgn]

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d]6k1/pp3p2/6p1/3p4/2pN4/P1P2P1P/1P1qR1P1/6K1 b - - 0 1

This is assessed as engine draw with correct play.

Unfortunately H5 lost due to time troube.

What is your say on the outcome of this endgame?

Code: Select all

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/FmAXN1pDy.png

[pgn][Event "EXPERT-PC, Rapid 30m+30s"]
[Site "EXPERT-PC"]
[Date "2017.06.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext"]
[Black "Stockfish 210617 64 BMI2 BYO"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Annotator "-1.38;-1.74"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6k1/pp3p2/6p1/3p4/2pN4/P1P2P1P/1P1qR1P1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "119"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5960X CPU @ 3.00GHz 3000 MHz W=39.8 plies; 26 896kN/s;
10 059 402 TBAs B=54.2 plies; 22 837kN/s; 326 275 290 TBAs} 1... Qc1+ {-1.74/
46 199 Both last book move} 2. Kf2 {-1.38/33 96} Kg7 {-1.81/49 222} 3. Rc2 {
-1.44/33 145} Qb1 {-1.81/48 57} 4. Re2 {-1.51/35 59} Qc1 {-1.74/49 63 (a6)} 5.
Rc2 {-0.01/85 35} Qd1 {-1.60/51 80 (Qb1)} 6. Re2 {-1.50/37 115} Qa1 {-1.58/49
45} 7. Kg3 {-1.49/32 9 (Rd2)} Qf1 {-1.73/43 28 (Qg1)} 8. Re7 {-1.48/34 86 (Kf4)
} b6 {-1.52/52 105} 9. h4 {-1.48/31 54 (Re8)} Qh1 {-1.80/42 38 (a6)} 10. Re5 {
-1.48/33 62 (Re2)} a6 {-1.88/46 43} 11. Re3 {-1.48/37 74 (Re8)} Kf6 {-2.00/46
97 (b5)} 12. Re2 {-1.48/36 94 (Re8)} b5 {-1.82/52 119} 13. Nc2 {-1.54/37 104
(Kg4)} Qb1 {-1.82/53 42 (Qc1)} 14. Nd4 {-1.69/39 432} Qf1 {-1.82/53 9 (Qd1)}
15. Rf2 {-1.61/34 54 (Kg4)} Qe1 {-2.16/39 32} 16. Nc2 {-1.82/33 118 (f4)} Qe5+
{-2.16/50 51 (Qc1)} 17. Kh3 {-1.69/36 45 (f4)} a5 {-2.16/50 47} 18. g3 {
-1.69/37 14} Qf5+ {-2.16/52 13} 19. Kg2 {-1.69/39 47} Qd3 {-2.16/58 51} 20. Nd4
{-2.05/36 239} b4 {-2.16/61 17} 21. axb4 {-2.25/35 7} axb4 {-2.16/65 48} 22.
Rc2 {-2.25/38 37} Kg7 {-2.16/63 13} 23. Kf2 {-2.25/38 56} Qd1 {-2.16/63 63 (f5)
} 24. Kg2 {-2.25/32 38} Kf8 {-2.16/62 32 (f6)} 25. Kf2 {-2.32/36 58 (Re2)} Qh1
{-3.43/43 45 (f6)} 26. Ke3 {-2.46/35 65} Qg1+ {-3.43/53 52} 27. Kf4 {-2.47/34 1
} f6 {-3.43/58 14} 28. Kg4 {-2.61/37 62 (Ne6+)} Kf7 {-3.43/58 53} 29. Re2 {
-2.61/39 49 (Kf4)} Qc1 {-3.43/55 55} 30. Rc2 {-2.61/38 1} f5+ {-3.43/54 15
(Qa1)} 31. Kh3 {-2.76/37 208} Qe1 {-3.43/57 62 (Qh1+)} 32. Kg2 {-2.70/35 36
(Re2)} f4 {-3.43/59 58} 33. gxf4 {-2.70/35 17 (g4)} Qxh4 {-3.43/56 63} 34. f5 {
-2.70/36 38 (Ne2)} gxf5 {-3.43/58 67 (Qg5+)} 35. Re2 {-2.70/36 40} Qg5+ {
-3.43/57 54 (Qf4)} 36. Kh3 {-2.70/37 36} Qh6+ {-3.43/52 56 (f4)} 37. Kg2 {
-2.70/41 59} Qc1 {-3.43/63 56 (Qf6)} 38. Rc2 {-2.70/42 34} Qg5+ {-3.43/62 13}
39. Kf1 {-2.70/42 37 (Kf2)} Qe3 {-3.43/66 59 (Kf6)} 40. Kg2 {-2.70/42 34} Qh6 {
-3.43/64 76 (Kf6)} 41. Re2 {-0.01/85 8 (Kg3)} Qg6+ {-3.43/58 56 (Qf6)} 42. Kf1
{-2.70/41 86 (Kf2)} Qg5 {-3.43/66 70 (f4)} 43. Rc2 {-0.01/76 23} f4 {-3.43/67
50 (Kf6)} 44. Re2 {-2.70/42 67} Qg7 {-3.43/64 9 (Qg3)} 45. Rd2 {-2.70/39 33
(Rc2)} Qh6 {-3.43/60 78 (Qg6)} 46. Kg1 {-2.70/39 31 (Kg2)} Qg6+ {-3.43/58 45}
47. Kf1 {-2.70/42 51} Kf6 {-3.43/56 54} 48. Kf2 {-2.70/40 35} Qg3+ {-3.43/60
46 (Qg5)} 49. Kf1 {-2.70/41 31} Kf7 {-3.43/66 45 (Qh3+)} 50. Re2 {-2.70/42 35}
Kf6 {-3.43/62 43 (Qh3+)} 51. Rd2 {-0.01/65 17} Qg6 {-3.43/66 45 (Qh3+)} 52. Kf2
{-0.01/73 96} Ke5 {-3.43/64 28 (Qg5)} 53. Re2+ {-2.70/36 49 (Kf1)} Kd6 {
-3.43/65 45} 54. Rd2 {-2.70/36 29 (Kf1)} Qb1 {-4.78/52 138 (Qh5)} 55. Kg2 {
-2.70/35 23} Kc5 {-4.81/42 9 (Kc7)} 56. Re2 {-2.70/33 26} Qd1 {-5.79/40 32
(Qa1)} 57. Rc2 {-4.16/30 43} Kb6 {-8.07/41 131} 58. Rf2 {-4.55/31 30 (Re2)} Ka5
{-8.25/33 23 (Qd3)} 59. Rc2 {-5.27/31 30} Qe1 {-8.43/38 41 (Qd3)} 60. Re2 {
-5.16/30 18} Qa1 {-9.04/37 38 (Qb1) adjud.} 0-1

[/pgn]

I would say, black wins.

black has b7-b5, a7-a5, b5-b4, after which white remains with an isolated pawn on c3 which is difficult to defend, and there are some zugzwangs.

very much tactically relevant, engines see that better, but I think black should be winning.

btw., currently, the b2 backward pawn is quite of a weakness.

[Nordlandia]

Lyudmil: It would be interesting to see how this engame plays out on very strong hardware.

Is someone willing to play couple of games with colors reversed.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Lyudmil: It would be interesting to see how this engame plays out on very strong hardware.

Is someone willing to play couple of games with colors reversed.

indeed, black is easily winning.

no need to spend resources.

black can push pawns on the queen side to b4, change on c3, leave the lever on b4, or push to b3, can push pawns on the king side, can walk the king either to a4, or to h4, d5 pawn is still central and very strong, too many relative advantages.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

btw., I wanted to thank you for the great positions you are posting!

sometimes, you might post too much, but frequently, there are real gems within.

[Nordlandia]

Lyudmil: It would be interesting to see how this engame plays out on very strong hardware.

Is someone willing to play couple of games with colors reversed.

indeed, black is easily winning.

no need to spend resources.

black can push pawns on the queen side to b4, change on c3, leave the lever on b4, or push to b3, can push pawns on the king side, can walk the king either to a4, or to h4, d5 pawn is still central and very strong, too many relative advantages.

Surprisingly Komodo 11.01 is able to drew SF9 Dev, so i'm certain there is more to this endgame that one can imagine. Perhaps current technology is not strong enough to give clear-cutt answer as of now.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Lyudmil: It would be interesting to see how this engame plays out on very strong hardware.

Is someone willing to play couple of games with colors reversed.

indeed, black is easily winning.

no need to spend resources.

black can push pawns on the queen side to b4, change on c3, leave the lever on b4, or push to b3, can push pawns on the king side, can walk the king either to a4, or to h4, d5 pawn is still central and very strong, too many relative advantages.

Surprisingly Komodo 11.01 is able to drew SF9 Dev, so i'm certain there is more to this endgame that one can imagine. Perhaps current technology is not strong enough to give clear-cutt answer as of now.

small meaningless shootout with SF and Komodo, 10 games each 1 min.

7 draws, 13 black wins, SF won almost all.

I do not know when such stats are useful and when counter-productive.

most of the time I found they are useful, just as an indication, but there are instances when the result is fully the opposite. still have not found when such stats should be trusted, and when not.

in any case, how meaningful is a result returning a nice split between wins and draws?

[Nordlandia]

Yes, short time TC is not particularly useful for determinate the outcome of this endgame.

Here is a possible fortress black can't breach.

Engines don't understand pure fortresses but this endgame ain't technically fortress, i rather call it a semi-fortress. Either white holds or black wins.

A "semi-fortress" is a stronghold thought to be drawn until proven otherwice.

[d]8/5p2/5kp1/3p4/1ppN3P/2Pq1PP1/1PR3K1/8 b - - 0 22

[Nordlandia]

Latest asmfish wasn't able to beat Komodo 11.01 ->

[pgn][Event "EXPERT-PC, Rapid 30m+30s"]
[Site "EXPERT-PC"]
[Date "2017.06.29"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Black "asmFishW_2017-06-28_bmi2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "-1.57;-1.54"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6k1/pp3p2/6p1/3p4/2pN4/P1P2P1P/1P1qR1P1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "69"]
[TimeControl "1800+30"]

1... Qc1+ {-1.54/42 97 Both last book move} 2. Kh2 {-1.57/41 219} Kg7 {-1.71/
43 42 (Qd1)} 3. h4 {-1.46/38 89 (Kg3)} a6 {-1.78/44 97 (Qd1)} 4. Kh3 {-1.59/39
82} b5 {-1.86/45 38} 5. Kg3 {-1.62/38 39} Kf6 {-1.86/49 44 (Qh1)} 6. Kg4 {
-1.39/41 88 (Kf2)} Qd1 {-1.89/43 92 (Qh1)} 7. h5 {-1.36/40 27} gxh5+ {-1.89/55
155} 8. Kxh5 {-1.36/40 28} a5 {-1.89/57 22 (Qh1+)} 9. Kg4 {-1.39/43 38 (Kh4)}
b4 {-1.89/56 237} 10. axb4 {-1.41/44 48} axb4 {-1.89/56 13} 11. Kg3 {-1.41/41
36} Qg1 {-1.89/56 121} 12. Kh3 {-1.42/43 51 (Nc2)} Qh1+ {-1.89/57 60 (Kg5)} 13.
Kg3 {-1.43/44 68} Qg1 {-1.89/59 12 (Qc1)} 14. Kh3 {-1.45/41 44 (Nc2)} Kg5 {
-1.89/55 97} 15. Re5+ {-1.46/39 28 (g3)} Kg6 {-1.89/50 42} 16. Re2 {-1.46/42 65
} Qh1+ {-1.89/53 24 (f5)} 17. Kg3 {-1.45/41 35} Qc1 {-1.89/50 49} 18. Rc2 {
-1.47/42 34} Qe3 {-1.89/59 81 (Qg1)} 19. Kh2 {-1.32/42 31} Qe1 {-1.89/61 14
(f5)} 20. g3 {-1.32/43 29 (Re2)} Qf1 {-1.89/60 55 (f5)} 21. Rg2 {-1.33/47 46}
Qd1 {-1.89/57 47 (Kg5)} 22. Rc2 {-1.33/44 72 (Re2)} Qf1 {-1.89/61 63 (Kg5)} 23.
Rg2 {-1.34/51 103} Kg7 {-1.89/63 58 (Kg5)} 24. Re2 {-1.34/47 38 (Rc2)} Kf8 {
-1.89/63 62 (Qc1)} 25. Rg2 {-1.34/50 64} Kg7 {-1.89/67 53 (Qd3)} 26. Rc2 {
-1.34/52 115} Kh6 {-1.89/67 52 (Qd3)} 27. Re2 {-1.34/51 79 (Rg2)} Kg5 {-1.89/
66 53} 28. Rc2 {-1.36/48 87 (Rd2)} Kh6 {-1.89/66 134 (Qd3)} 29. Rg2 {-1.34/44
30} Kg6 {-1.89/66 53 (Qa1)} 30. Re2 {-1.34/48 83} Qb1 {-1.89/65 60 (Qc1)} 31.
Kg2 {-1.34/47 47} Qd1 {-1.89/51 58 (Qa1)} 32. Rf2 {-1.34/47 81} Kh5 {-1.89/53
9 (Qa1)} 33. Re2 {-1.35/47 76} Kg5 {-1.89/51 49 (Qa1)} 34. Rc2 {-1.35/43 56
(Kf2)} Kh6 {-1.89/62 49 (Qd3)} 35. Kh3 {-1.36/46 99 (Kf2)} Kg7 {-1.89/52 57
(Qa1) adjud. Draw accepted} 1/2-1/2

[/pgn]

[leavenfish]

Anyone who claims this is anything but a draw...just plays with engines and doesn't know how to play chess.