Faster Forced Mate

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peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by peter »

MikeGL wrote: after 75.Qd5 there is 75...Kf2 and now we must make sure we can
deliver checkmate within 35 moves, and maybe tablebase analysis would be required to confirm the #110.

We have added another problem because of 75.Qd5
New puzzle, if there's a Mate in #35 for below:
[d]8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/p6K/p4k2/5r2 w - - 4 76

I will analyze this one if a checkmate is possible in #35 or less.
If the mate is less than #35 then your 75.Qd5! move is correct for white, and 75...Rf2 is a stronger defence for black.
after 75...Kf2 there is a 15 moves shorter way to mate than after Rf2.

75.Qd5 Kf2 (?!):

8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/p6K/p4k2/5r2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 11.01 64-bit:

76.Qd2+ Kf3 77.Qg2+ Ke3 78.Qxf1 f4 79.Kxh4 f5 80.Qc1+ Ke2 81.Qc4+ Ke3 82.Qxa2 Ke4 83.Qxa3 Kd4 84.Qxa4+ Ke5 85.Kg5 f3 86.Qf4+ Kd5 87.Qxf3+ Kd4 88.Kxf5 Kc4 89.Qc6+ Kd4 90.Kf4 Kd3 91.Qc5 Kd2 92.Ke4 Ke1 93.Qc2 Kf1 94.Kf3 Kg1 95.Qg2#
+- (#20) Depth: 32 00:00:09 269MN

Already after 82.Qxa2 a 7some position of #13 is reached btw
Peter.
peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by peter »

4 moves less with 82.Qd5 instead of Qe2 similar to the detour at 75:

8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/7K/p7/5rk1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 11.01 64-bit:

82...Rf2 83.Qd4 a3 84.Qd1+ Rf1 85.Qd5 Rf2 86.Qd4 a1Q 87.Qxa1+ Rf1 88.Qd4+ Rf2 89.Qd1+ Rf1 90.Qe2 Rf2 91.Qe1+ Rf1 92.Qe3+ Rf2 93.Qd4 a2 94.Qd1+ Rf1 95.Qe2 Rf2 96.Qe1+ Rf1 97.Qe3+ Rf2 98.Qd4 a1Q 99.Qxa1+ Rf1 100.Qa7+ Rf2 101.Qd4 f4 102.Qd1+ Rf1 103.Qe2 Rf2 104.Qg4+ Kh1 105.Qd1+ Rf1 106.Qxf1#
+- (#24) Tiefe: 36 00:01:00 1740MN

[pgn]
[Event "1996 1.price"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2017.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Radomirovic, Miodrag"]
[Black "Jugoslav.Amateur, Championship"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2400"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "n7/pPp5/p4p2/5p2/p6p/p6K/3rb3/n6k w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "211"]
[EventDate "2017.??.??"]

1. bxa8=Q+ Bf3 2. Qxf3+ Kg1 3. Qe3+ Rf2 4. Qe1+ Rf1 5. Qe2 Rf2 6. Qd1+ Rf1 7.
Qd4+ Rf2 8. Qxa1+ Rf1 9. Qd4+ Rf2 10. Qd1+ Rf1 11. Qe2 Rf2 12. Qe1+ Rf1 13.
Qe3+ Rf2 14. Qd4 a2 15. Qd1+ Rf1 16. Qe2 Rf2 17. Qe1+ Rf1 18. Qe3+ Rf2 19. Qd4
a3 20. Qd1+ Rf1 21. Qe2 Rf2 22. Qe1+ Rf1 23. Qe3+ Rf2 24. Qd4 a5 25. Qd1+ Rf1
26. Qe2 Rf2 27. Qe1+ Rf1 28. Qe3+ Rf2 29. Qd4 a4 30. Qd1+ Rf1 31. Qe2 Rf2 32.
Qe1+ Rf1 33. Qe3+ Rf2 34. Qd4 a6 35. Qd1+ Rf1 36. Qe2 Rf2 37. Qe1+ Rf1 38. Qe3+
Rf2 39. Qd4 a5 40. Qd1+ Rf1 41. Qe2 Rf2 42. Qe1+ Rf1 43. Qe3+ Rf2 44. Qd4 c6
45. Qd1+ Rf1 46. Qe2 Rf2 47. Qe1+ Rf1 48. Qe3+ Rf2 49. Qd4 c5 50. Qd1+ Rf1 51.
Qe2 Rf2 52. Qe1+ Rf1 53. Qe3+ Rf2 54. Qc1+ Rf1 55. Qxc5+ Rf2 56. Qd4 a1=Q 57.
Qxa1+ Rf1 58. Qd4+ Rf2 59. Qd1+ Rf1 60. Qe2 Rf2 61. Qe1+ Rf1 62. Qe3+ Rf2 63.
Qd4 a2 64. Qd1+ Rf1 65. Qe2 Rf2 66. Qe1+ Rf1 67. Qe3+ Rf2 68. Qd4 a3 69. Qd1+
Rf1 70. Qe2 Rf2 71. Qe1+ Rf1 72. Qe3+ Rf2 73. Qd4 a4 74. Qd1+ Rf1 75. Qd5 (75.
Qe2 $6 Rf2 76. Qe1+ Rf1 77. Qe3+ Rf2 78. Qd4 a1=R 79. Qxa1+ Rf1 80. Qc3 (80.
Qd4+ $6 Rf2 81. Qd1+ Rf1 82. Qe2 Rf2 83. Qe1+ Rf1 84. Qe3+ Rf2 85. Qd4 a2 86.
Qd1+ Rf1 87. Qe2 Rf2 88. Qe1+ Rf1 89. Qe3+ Rf2 90. Qd4 a3 91. Qd1+ Rf1 92. Qe2
Rf2 93. Qe1+ Rf1 94. Qe3+ Rf2 95. Qd4 a1=Q 96. Qxa1+ Rf1 97. Qd4+ Rf2 98. Qd1+
Rf1 99. Qe2 Rf2 100. Qe1+ Rf1 101. Qe3+ Rf2 102. Qd4 a2 103. Qd1+ Rf1 104. Qe2
Rf2 105. Qe1+ Rf1 106. Qe3+ Rf2 107. Qd4 a1=R 108. Qxa1+ Rf1 109. Qd4+ Rf2 110.
Qd1+ Rf1 111. Qe2 Rf2 112. Qe1+ Rf1 113. Qe3+ Rf2 114. Qd4 f4 115. Qd1+ Rf1
116. Qe2 Rf2 117. Qg4+ Kh1 118. Qd1+ Rf1 119. Qxf1#) 80... Rf4 81. Qe3+ Rf2 82.
Qd4 a2 83. Qd1+ Rf1 84. Qe2 Rf2 85. Qe1+ Rf1 86. Qe3+ Rf2 87. Qd4 a3 88. Qd1+
Rf1 89. Qe2 Rf2 90. Qe1+ Rf1 91. Qe3+ Rf2 92. Qd4 a1=Q 93. Qxa1+ Rf1 94. Qd4+
Rf2 95. Qd1+ Rf1 96. Qe2 Rf2 97. Qe1+ Rf1 98. Qe3+ Rf2 99. Qd4 a2 100. Qd1+ Rf1
101. Qe2 Rf2 102. Qe1+ Rf1 103. Qe3+ Rf2 104. Qd4 a1=Q 105. Qxa1+ Rf1 106. Qa7+
Rf2 107. Qd4 f4 108. Qd1+ Rf1 109. Qe2 Rf2 110. Qg4+ Kh1 111. Qd1+ Rf1 112.
Qxf1#) 75... Rf2 (75... Kf2 $2 76. Qd2+ Kf3 77. Qg2+ Ke3 78. Qxf1 f4 79. Kxh4
f5 80. Qc1+ Ke2 81. Qc4+ Ke3 82. Qxa2 Kd3 83. Qxa3+ Ke4 84. Qxa4+ Ke5 85. Qc4
f3 86. Kg3 f2 87. Kxf2 Kf6 88. Ke3 Ke5 89. Qc5+ Kf6 90. Kf4 Ke6 91. Qc6+ Ke7
92. Kxf5 Kf8 93. Qd7 Kg8 94. Kf6 Kf8 95. Qc8#) 76. Qd4 a1=Q 77. Qxa1+ Rf1 78.
Qc3 Rf4 79. Qe3+ Rf2 80. Qd4 a2 81. Qd1+ Rf1 82. Qd5 (82. Qe2 $6 Rf2 83. Qe1+
Rf1 84. Qe3+ Rf2 85. Qd4 a3 86. Qd1+ Rf1 87. Qe2 Rf2 88. Qe1+ Rf1 89. Qe3+ Rf2
90. Qd4 a1=Q 91. Qxa1+ Rf1 92. Qd4+ Rf2 93. Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1
96. Qe3+ Rf2 97. Qd4 a2 98. Qd1+ Rf1 99. Qe2 Rf2 100. Qe1+ Rf1 101. Qe3+ Rf2
102. Qd4 a1=Q 103. Qxa1+ Rf1 104. Qa7+ Rf2 105. Qd4 f4 106. Qd1+ Rf1 107. Qe2
Rf2 108. Qg4+ Kh1 109. Qd1+ Rf1 110. Qxf1#) 82... Rf2 83. Qd4 a3 (83... a1=B $5
84. Qxa1+ Rf1 85. Qc3 Rf4 86. Qe3+ Rf2 87. Qd4 a3 88. Qd1+ Rf1 89. Qe2 Rf2 90.
Qe1+ Rf1 91. Qe3+ Rf2 92. Qd4 a2 93. Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1 96. Qe3+
Rf2 97. Qd4 a1=R 98. Qxa1+ Rf1 99. Qa7+ Rf2 100. Qd4 f4 101. Qd1+ Rf1 102. Qe2
Rf2 103. Qg4+ Kh1 104. Qd1+ Rf1 105. Qxf1#) 84. Qd1+ Rf1 85. Qd5 Rf2 86. Qd4
a1=Q 87. Qxa1+ Rf1 88. Qd4+ Rf2 89. Qd1+ Rf1 90. Qe2 Rf2 91. Qe1+ Rf1 92. Qe3+
Rf2 93. Qd4 a2 94. Qd1+ Rf1 95. Qe2 Rf2 96. Qe1+ Rf1 97. Qe3+ Rf2 98. Qd4 a1=Q
99. Qxa1+ Rf1 100. Qa7+ Rf2 101. Qd4 f4 102. Qd1+ Rf1 103. Qe2 Rf2 104. Qg4+
Kh1 105. Qd1+ Rf1 106. Qxf1# 1-0
[/pgn]
Peter.
Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by Vinvin »

peter wrote:4 moves less with 82.Qd5 instead of Qe2 similar to the detour at 75:

8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/7K/p7/5rk1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 11.01 64-bit:

82...Rf2 83.Qd4 a3 84.Qd1+ Rf1 85.Qd5 Rf2 86.Qd4 a1Q 87.Qxa1+ Rf1 88.Qd4+ Rf2 89.Qd1+ Rf1 90.Qe2 Rf2 91.Qe1+ Rf1 92.Qe3+ Rf2 93.Qd4 a2 94.Qd1+ Rf1 95.Qe2 Rf2 96.Qe1+ Rf1 97.Qe3+ Rf2 98.Qd4 a1Q 99.Qxa1+ Rf1 100.Qa7+ Rf2 101.Qd4 f4 102.Qd1+ Rf1 103.Qe2 Rf2 104.Qg4+ Kh1 105.Qd1+ Rf1 106.Qxf1#
+- (#24) Tiefe: 36 00:01:00 1740MN
SF-MF even finds 1 move shorter with 88.Qc3 :

Code: Select all

Stockfish_170621_matefinder:
...
 55/63	00:11	 307 256k	25 677k	+M23	82. ... Rf2 83.Qd4 a1R 84.Qxa1+ Rf1 85.Qc3 Rf4 86.Qc5+ Rf2 87.Qd4 a3 88.Qd1+ Rf1 89.Qe2 Rf2 90.Qe1+ Rf1 91.Qe3+ Rf2 92.Qd4 a2 93.Qd1+ Rf1 94.Qe2 Rf2 95.Qe1+ Rf1 96.Qe3+ Rf2 97.Qd4 a1R 98.Qxa1+ Rf1 99.Qa7+ Rf2 100.Qd4 f4 101.Qd1+ Rf1 102.Qe2 Rf2 103.Qg4+ Kh1 104.Qd1+ Rf1 105.Qxf1+
MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by MikeGL »

peter wrote:
MikeGL wrote: after 75.Qd5 there is 75...Kf2 and now we must make sure we can
deliver checkmate within 35 moves, and maybe tablebase analysis would be required to confirm the #110.

We have added another problem because of 75.Qd5
New puzzle, if there's a Mate in #35 for below:
[d]8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/p6K/p4k2/5r2 w - - 4 76

I will analyze this one if a checkmate is possible in #35 or less.
If the mate is less than #35 then your 75.Qd5! move is correct for white, and 75...Rf2 is a stronger defence for black.
after 75...Kf2 there is a 15 moves shorter way to mate than after Rf2.

75.Qd5 Kf2 (?!):

8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/p6K/p4k2/5r2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 11.01 64-bit:

76.Qd2+ Kf3 77.Qg2+ Ke3 78.Qxf1 f4 79.Kxh4 f5 80.Qc1+ Ke2 81.Qc4+ Ke3 82.Qxa2 Ke4 83.Qxa3 Kd4 84.Qxa4+ Ke5 85.Kg5 f3 86.Qf4+ Kd5 87.Qxf3+ Kd4 88.Kxf5 Kc4 89.Qc6+ Kd4 90.Kf4 Kd3 91.Qc5 Kd2 92.Ke4 Ke1 93.Qc2 Kf1 94.Kf3 Kg1 95.Qg2#
+- (#20) Depth: 32 00:00:09 269MN

Already after 82.Qxa2 a 7some position of #13 is reached btw
True. Your 75.Qd5 is correct and solves it in #110.
75...Kf2 is weaker then, and your 75...Rf2 is a stronger defence.

regards
peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by peter »

Vinvin wrote: 8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/7K/p7/5rk1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 11.01 64-bit:

82...Rf2 83.Qd4 a3 84.Qd1+ Rf1 85.Qd5 Rf2 86.Qd4 a1Q 87.Qxa1+ Rf1 88.Qd4+ Rf2 89.Qd1+ Rf1 90.Qe2 Rf2 91.Qe1+ Rf1 92.Qe3+ Rf2 93.Qd4 a2 94.Qd1+ Rf1 95.Qe2 Rf2 96.Qe1+ Rf1 97.Qe3+ Rf2 98.Qd4 a1Q 99.Qxa1+ Rf1 100.Qa7+ Rf2 101.Qd4 f4 102.Qd1+ Rf1 103.Qe2 Rf2 104.Qg4+ Kh1 105.Qd1+ Rf1 106.Qxf1#
+- (#24) Tiefe: 36 00:01:00 1740MN

SF-MF even finds 1 move shorter with 88.Qc3 :

Code: Select all

Stockfish_170621_matefinder:
...
 55/63	00:11	 307 256k	25 677k	+M23	82. ... Rf2 83.Qd4 a1R 84.Qxa1+ Rf1 85.Qc3 Rf4 86.Qc5+ Rf2 87.Qd4 a3 88.Qd1+ Rf1 89.Qe2 Rf2 90.Qe1+ Rf1 91.Qe3+ Rf2 92.Qd4 a2 93.Qd1+ Rf1 94.Qe2 Rf2 95.Qe1+ Rf1 96.Qe3+ Rf2 97.Qd4 a1R 98.Qxa1+ Rf1 99.Qa7+ Rf2 100.Qd4 f4 101.Qd1+ Rf1 102.Qe2 Rf2 103.Qg4+ Kh1 104.Qd1+ Rf1 105.Qxf1+
You can find that in my .pgn already too, Vincent, 83...a1R(B, Q, whatever) seems to give away this one move compared to 83...a3
Peter.
MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by MikeGL »

Vinvin wrote:
peter wrote:4 moves less with 82.Qd5 instead of Qe2 similar to the detour at 75:

8/8/5p2/3Q1p2/p6p/7K/p7/5rk1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 11.01 64-bit:

82...Rf2 83.Qd4 a3 84.Qd1+ Rf1 85.Qd5 Rf2 86.Qd4 a1Q 87.Qxa1+ Rf1 88.Qd4+ Rf2 89.Qd1+ Rf1 90.Qe2 Rf2 91.Qe1+ Rf1 92.Qe3+ Rf2 93.Qd4 a2 94.Qd1+ Rf1 95.Qe2 Rf2 96.Qe1+ Rf1 97.Qe3+ Rf2 98.Qd4 a1Q 99.Qxa1+ Rf1 100.Qa7+ Rf2 101.Qd4 f4 102.Qd1+ Rf1 103.Qe2 Rf2 104.Qg4+ Kh1 105.Qd1+ Rf1 106.Qxf1#
+- (#24) Tiefe: 36 00:01:00 1740MN
SF-MF even finds 1 move shorter with 88.Qc3 :

Code: Select all

Stockfish_170621_matefinder:
...
 55/63	00:11	 307 256k	25 677k	+M23	82. ... Rf2 83.Qd4 a1R 84.Qxa1+ Rf1 85.Qc3 Rf4 86.Qc5+ Rf2 87.Qd4 a3 88.Qd1+ Rf1 89.Qe2 Rf2 90.Qe1+ Rf1 91.Qe3+ Rf2 92.Qd4 a2 93.Qd1+ Rf1 94.Qe2 Rf2 95.Qe1+ Rf1 96.Qe3+ Rf2 97.Qd4 a1R 98.Qxa1+ Rf1 99.Qa7+ Rf2 100.Qd4 f4 101.Qd1+ Rf1 102.Qe2 Rf2 103.Qg4+ Kh1 104.Qd1+ Rf1 105.Qxf1+
Strange, that makes it even shorter. I noticed the first pawn which should be pushed by black is c7-c6 defending d5 square and let the c6 pawn stay there as much as possible to avoid the quicker mate because of the shortcut Qd1+ Δ Qd5 Δ Qd4. Defence is stronger if there's c6 pawn and we don't push that c6 to keep an eye on d5 square, which could then prolong the checkmate.

regards
MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by MikeGL »

Tried to put up the best defences for black just to make it #110 but it always ends up getting mated at 104.

The following solution doesn't move the c6 pawn to defend d5 square.

[pgn][Event "1996 1.price"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2017.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Radomirovic, Miodrag"]
[Black "Jugoslav.Amateur, Championship"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "n7/pPp5/p4p2/5p2/p6p/p6K/3rb3/n6k w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "207"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. bxa8=Q+ Bf3 2. Qxf3+ Kg1 3. Qe3+ Rf2 4. Qe1+ Rf1 5. Qe2 Rf2 6. Qd1+ Rf1
7. Qd4+ Rf2 8. Qxa1+ Rf1 9. Qd4+ Rf2 10. Qd1+ Rf1 11. Qd5 Rf2 12. Qd4 c6
13. Qd1+ Rf1 14. Qe2 Rf2 15. Qe1+ Rf1 16. Qe3+ Rf2 17. Qd4 a2 18. Qd1+ Rf1
19. Qe2 Rf2 20. Qe1+ Rf1 21. Qe3+ Rf2 22. Qd4 a3 23. Qd1+ Rf1 24. Qe2 Rf2
25. Qe1+ Rf1 26. Qe3+ Rf2 27. Qd4 a5 28. Qd1+ Rf1 29. Qe2 Rf2 30. Qe1+ Rf1
31. Qe3+ Rf2 32. Qd4 a4 33. Qd1+ Rf1 34. Qe2 Rf2 35. Qe1+ Rf1 36. Qe3+ Rf2
37. Qd4 a6 38. Qd1+ Rf1 39. Qe2 Rf2 40. Qe1+ Rf1 41. Qe3+ Rf2 42. Qd4 a5
43. Qd1+ Rf1 44. Qe2 Rf2 45. Qe1+ Rf1 46. Qe3+ Rf2 47. Qd4 a1=Q 48. Qxa1+
Rf1 49. Qc3 Rf4 50. Qe3+ Rf2 51. Qd4 a2 52. Qd1+ Rf1 53. Qe2 Rf2 54. Qe1+
Rf1 55. Qe3+ Rf2 56. Qd4 a3 57. Qd1+ Rf1 58. Qe2 Rf2 59. Qe1+ Rf1 60. Qe3+
Rf2 61. Qd4 a4 62. Qd1+ Rf1 63. Qe2 Rf2 64. Qe1+ Rf1 65. Qe3+ Rf2 66. Qd4
a1=Q 67. Qxa1+ Rf1 68. Qc3 Rf4 69. Qe3+ Rf2 70. Qd4 a2 71. Qd1+ Rf1 72. Qe2
Rf2 73. Qe1+ Rf1 74. Qe3+ Rf2 75. Qd4 a3 76. Qd1+ Rf1 77. Qe2 Rf2 78. Qe1+
Rf1 79. Qe3+ Rf2 80. Qd4 a1=Q 81. Qxa1+ Rf1 82. Qc3 Rf4 83. Qe3+ Rf2 84.
Qd4 a2 85. Qd1+ Rf1 86. Qe2 Rf2 87. Qe1+ Rf1 88. Qe3+ Rf2 89. Qd4 a1=Q 90.
Qxa1+ Rf1 91. Qa7+ Rf2 92. Qd4 c5 93. Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1 96.
Qe3+ Rf2 97. Qc1+ Rf1 98. Qxc5+ Rf2 99. Qd4 f4 100. Qd1+ Rf1 101. Qe2 Rf2
102. Qg4+ Kh1 103. Qd1+ Rf1 104. Qxf1# 1-0
[/pgn]

Maybe label of the puzzle is wrong, it could be just #104 and not #101.
peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by peter »

You're right about black c- pawn, yet i don't even make it below 112 now again and I can't find out where the difference is, cause with those many possible transpositions I can't paste your line without losing it in mine and it's the same the other way round.
To be really honest, I'm just fed up with this one now
:)
As well as with the principal of cyclic Zugzwang all in all, seems it fools not only the engines but the authors themselves as well
:)
Peter.
MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by MikeGL »

Agreed, fed up with this specific position too.
Either:
i. The label is wrong
ii. We don't play the correct defense moves for black

By analyzing it and looking at the pattern of Q movements, after Qxa1 for all pawn promotions just play Qc3 for a quicker lose or gain of a tempo, else if there's no capture at a1 just yet then continue with Qd1+ > Qe2 > Qe1+ > Qe3+ > Qd4 maneouver to lose or gain tempo.

That's the basic pattern for this puzzle, but there are 3 patterns especially if no c6 defending d5 square the pattern is Qd1+ > Qd5 > Qd4.

I honestly believe the label of #110 is wrong.

regards
peter
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Faster Forced Mate #110 -position 6379 ChestUCI.epd

Post by peter »

Ok, a really really very very last one.
:)
It seems to me, Mike, your line yet at the very end at 80... has a two-moves-gift still.
With 80...c5 there instead of ...a1x, I don't see a shorter way than #106.
Just for just I did let all shortcuts and detours to be considered in my .pgn, and of course for your personal enjoyment, Mike!
Now it's your turn again
:)
[pgn]
[Event "1996 1.price"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2017.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Radomirovic, Miodrag"]
[Black "Jugoslav.Amateur, Championship"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2400"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "n7/pPp5/p4p2/5p2/p6p/p6K/3rb3/n6k w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "211"]
[EventDate "2017.??.??"]

1. bxa8=Q+ Bf3 2. Qxf3+ Kg1 3. Qe3+ Rf2 4. Qe1+ Rf1 5. Qe2 Rf2 6. Qd1+ Rf1 7.
Qd4+ Rf2 8. Qxa1+ Rf1 9. Qd4+ Rf2 10. Qd1+ Rf1 11. Qd5 (11. Qe2 $6 Rf2 12. Qe1+
Rf1 13. Qe3+ Rf2 14. Qd4 a2 15. Qd1+ Rf1 16. Qe2 Rf2 17. Qe1+ Rf1 18. Qe3+ Rf2
19. Qd4 a3 20. Qd1+ Rf1 21. Qe2 Rf2 22. Qe1+ Rf1 23. Qe3+ Rf2 24. Qd4 a5 25.
Qd1+ Rf1 26. Qe2 Rf2 27. Qe1+ Rf1 28. Qe3+ Rf2 29. Qd4 a4 30. Qd1+ Rf1 31. Qe2
Rf2 32. Qe1+ Rf1 33. Qe3+ Rf2 34. Qd4 a6 35. Qd1+ Rf1 36. Qe2 Rf2 37. Qe1+ Rf1
38. Qe3+ Rf2 39. Qd4 a5 40. Qd1+ Rf1 41. Qe2 Rf2 42. Qe1+ Rf1 43. Qe3+ Rf2 44.
Qd4 c6 (44... a1=Q $5 45. Qxa1+ Rf1 46. Qd4+ (46. Qxa3 Kf2 47. Qc5+ Ke1 48.
Qxa5+ Ke2 49. Qb5+ Ke1 50. Qxa4 Rf3+ 51. Kxh4 c6 {R}) 46... Rf2 47. Qd1+ Rf1
48. Qd5 Rf2 49. Qd4 a2 50. Qd1+ Rf1 51. Qd5 Rf2 52. Qd4 a3 53. Qd1+ Rf1 54. Qd5
Rf2 55. Qd4 a4 56. Qd1+ Rf1 57. Qd5 Rf2 58. Qd4 a1=Q 59. Qxa1+ Rf1 60. Qd4+ Rf2
61. Qd1+ Rf1 62. Qd5 Rf2 63. Qd4 a2 64. Qd1+ Rf1 65. Qd5 Rf2 66. Qd4 a3 67.
Qd1+ Rf1 68. Qd5 Rf2 69. Qd4 a1=Q 70. Qxa1+ Rf1 71. Qd4+ Rf2 72. Qd1+ Rf1 73.
Qd5 Rf2 74. Qd4 a2 75. Qd1+ Rf1 76. Qd5 Rf2 77. Qd4 c6 (77... a1=Q $5 78. Qxa1+
Rf1 79. Qa7+ Rf2 80. Qd4 c6 81. Qa1+ Rf1 82. Qa7+ Rf2 83. Qd4 c5 84. Qd1+ Rf1
85. Qe2 Rf2 86. Qe1+ Rf1 87. Qe3+ Rf2 88. Qc1+ Rf1 89. Qxc5+ Rf2 90. Qd4 f4 91.
Qd1+ Rf1 92. Qe2 Rf2 93. Qg4+ Kh1 94. Qd1+ Rf1 95. Qxf1#) 78. Qd1+ Rf1 79. Qe2
Rf2 80. Qe1+ Rf1 81. Qe3+ Rf2 82. Qd4 a1=R 83. Qxa1+ Rf1 84. Qa7+ Rf2 85. Qd4
c5 86. Qd1+ Rf1 87. Qe2 Rf2 88. Qe1+ Rf1 89. Qe3+ Rf2 90. Qc1+ Rf1 91. Qxc5+
Rf2 92. Qd4 f4 93. Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qg4+ Kh1 96. Qd1+ Rf1 97. Qxf1#)
45. Qd1+ Rf1 46. Qe2 Rf2 47. Qe1+ Rf1 48. Qe3+ Rf2 49. Qd4 a1=Q (49... c5 $6
50. Qd1+ Rf1 51. Qe2 Rf2 52. Qe1+ Rf1 53. Qe3+ Rf2 54. Qc1+ Rf1 55. Qxc5+ Rf2
56. Qd4 a1=Q 57. Qxa1+ Rf1 58. Qd4+ Rf2 59. Qd1+ Rf1 60. Qd5 (60. Qe2 $6 Rf2
61. Qe1+ Rf1 62. Qe3+ Rf2 63. Qd4 a2 64. Qd1+ Rf1 65. Qe2 Rf2 66. Qe1+ Rf1 67.
Qe3+ Rf2 68. Qd4 a3 69. Qd1+ Rf1 70. Qe2 Rf2 71. Qe1+ Rf1 72. Qe3+ Rf2 73. Qd4
a4 74. Qd1+ Rf1 75. Qd5 (75. Qe2 $6 Rf2 76. Qe1+ Rf1 77. Qe3+ Rf2 78. Qd4 a1=R
79. Qxa1+ Rf1 80. Qc3 (80. Qd4+ $6 Rf2 81. Qd1+ Rf1 82. Qe2 Rf2 83. Qe1+ Rf1
84. Qe3+ Rf2 85. Qd4 a2 86. Qd1+ Rf1 87. Qe2 Rf2 88. Qe1+ Rf1 89. Qe3+ Rf2 90.
Qd4 a3 91. Qd1+ Rf1 92. Qe2 Rf2 93. Qe1+ Rf1 94. Qe3+ Rf2 95. Qd4 a1=Q 96.
Qxa1+ Rf1 97. Qd4+ Rf2 98. Qd1+ Rf1 99. Qe2 Rf2 100. Qe1+ Rf1 101. Qe3+ Rf2
102. Qd4 a2 103. Qd1+ Rf1 104. Qe2 Rf2 105. Qe1+ Rf1 106. Qe3+ Rf2 107. Qd4
a1=R 108. Qxa1+ Rf1 109. Qd4+ Rf2 110. Qd1+ Rf1 111. Qe2 Rf2 112. Qe1+ Rf1 113.
Qe3+ Rf2 114. Qd4 f4 115. Qd1+ Rf1 116. Qe2 Rf2 117. Qg4+ Kh1 118. Qd1+ Rf1
119. Qxf1#) 80... Rf4 81. Qe3+ Rf2 82. Qd4 a2 83. Qd1+ Rf1 84. Qe2 Rf2 85. Qe1+
Rf1 86. Qe3+ Rf2 87. Qd4 a3 88. Qd1+ Rf1 89. Qe2 Rf2 90. Qe1+ Rf1 91. Qe3+ Rf2
92. Qd4 a1=Q 93. Qxa1+ Rf1 94. Qd4+ Rf2 95. Qd1+ Rf1 96. Qe2 Rf2 97. Qe1+ Rf1
98. Qe3+ Rf2 99. Qd4 a2 100. Qd1+ Rf1 101. Qe2 Rf2 102. Qe1+ Rf1 103. Qe3+ Rf2
104. Qd4 a1=Q 105. Qxa1+ Rf1 106. Qa7+ Rf2 107. Qd4 f4 108. Qd1+ Rf1 109. Qe2
Rf2 110. Qg4+ Kh1 111. Qd1+ Rf1 112. Qxf1#) 75... Rf2 (75... Kf2 $2 76. Qd2+
Kf3 77. Qg2+ Ke3 78. Qxf1 f4 79. Kxh4 f5 80. Qc1+ Ke2 81. Qc4+ Ke3 82. Qxa2 Kd3
83. Qxa3+ Ke4 84. Qxa4+ Ke5 85. Qc4 f3 86. Kg3 f2 87. Kxf2 Kf6 88. Ke3 Ke5 89.
Qc5+ Kf6 90. Kf4 Ke6 91. Qc6+ Ke7 92. Kxf5 Kf8 93. Qd7 Kg8 94. Kf6 Kf8 95. Qc8#
) 76. Qd4 a1=Q 77. Qxa1+ Rf1 78. Qc3 Rf4 79. Qe3+ Rf2 80. Qd4 a2 81. Qd1+ Rf1
82. Qd5 (82. Qe2 $6 Rf2 83. Qe1+ Rf1 84. Qe3+ Rf2 85. Qd4 a3 86. Qd1+ Rf1 87.
Qe2 Rf2 88. Qe1+ Rf1 89. Qe3+ Rf2 90. Qd4 a1=Q 91. Qxa1+ Rf1 92. Qd4+ Rf2 93.
Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1 96. Qe3+ Rf2 97. Qd4 a2 98. Qd1+ Rf1 99. Qe2
Rf2 100. Qe1+ Rf1 101. Qe3+ Rf2 102. Qd4 a1=Q 103. Qxa1+ Rf1 104. Qa7+ Rf2 105.
Qd4 f4 106. Qd1+ Rf1 107. Qe2 Rf2 108. Qg4+ Kh1 109. Qd1+ Rf1 110. Qxf1#) 82...
Rf2 83. Qd4 a3 (83... a1=B 84. Qxa1+ Rf1 85. Qc3 Rf4 86. Qe3+ Rf2 87. Qd4 a3
88. Qd1+ Rf1 89. Qe2 Rf2 90. Qe1+ Rf1 91. Qe3+ Rf2 92. Qd4 a2 93. Qd1+ Rf1 94.
Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1 96. Qe3+ Rf2 97. Qd4 a1=R 98. Qxa1+ Rf1 99. Qa7+ Rf2 100.
Qd4 f4 101. Qd1+ Rf1 102. Qe2 Rf2 103. Qg4+ Kh1 104. Qd1+ Rf1 105. Qxf1#) 84.
Qd1+ Rf1 85. Qd5 Rf2 86. Qd4 a1=Q 87. Qxa1+ Rf1 88. Qc3 (88. Qd4+ $5 Rf2 89.
Qd1+ Rf1 90. Qe2 Rf2 91. Qe1+ Rf1 92. Qe3+ Rf2 93. Qd4 a2 94. Qd1+ Rf1 95. Qe2
Rf2 96. Qe1+ Rf1 97. Qe3+ Rf2 98. Qd4 a1=Q 99. Qxa1+ Rf1 100. Qa7+ Rf2 101. Qd4
f4 102. Qd1+ Rf1 103. Qe2 Rf2 104. Qg4+ Kh1 105. Qd1+ Rf1 106. Qxf1#) 88... Kf2
89. Qd2+ Kf3 90. Qg2+ Ke3 91. Qxf1 f4 92. Qa1 Ke4 93. Qxa3 Ke5 94. Qe7+ Kd4 95.
Qxf6+ Kd5 96. Kxh4 f3 97. Qxf3+ Kc5 98. Kg5 Kb5 99. Kf5 Kc4 100. Ke5 Kc5 101.
Qd5+ Kb6 102. Kd6 Ka7 103. Kc6 Kb8 104. Qb3+ Ka7 105. Qb7#) 60... Rf2 61. Qd4
a2 62. Qd1+ Rf1 63. Qd5 Rf2 64. Qd4 a3 65. Qd1+ Rf1 66. Qd5 Rf2 67. Qd4 a1=R
68. Qxa1+ Rf1 69. Qc3 Rf4 70. Qc5+ Rf2 71. Qd4 a2 72. Qd1+ Rf1 73. Qd5 Rf2 74.
Qd4 a1=Q 75. Qxa1+ Rf1 76. Qc3 Rf4 77. Qe3+ Rf2 78. Qd4 a4 79. Qd1+ Rf1 80. Qd5
Rf2 81. Qd4 a3 82. Qd1+ Rf1 83. Qe2 Rf2 84. Qe1+ Rf1 85. Qe3+ Rf2 86. Qd4 a2
87. Qd1+ Rf1 88. Qe2 Rf2 89. Qe1+ Rf1 90. Qe3+ Rf2 91. Qd4 a1=R 92. Qxa1+ Rf1
93. Qa7+ Rf2 94. Qd4 f4 95. Qd1+ Rf1 96. Qe2 Rf2 97. Qg4+ Kh1 98. Qd1+ Rf1 99.
Qxf1#) 50. Qxa1+ Rf1 51. Qd4+ Rf2 52. Qd1+ Rf1 53. Qe2 Rf2 54. Qe1+ Rf1 55.
Qe3+ Rf2 56. Qd4 a2 57. Qd1+ Rf1 58. Qe2 Rf2 59. Qe1+ Rf1 60. Qe3+ Rf2 61. Qd4
a1=Q 62. Qxa1+ Rf1 63. Qd4+ Rf2 64. Qd1+ Rf1 65. Qe2 Rf2 66. Qe1+ Rf1 67. Qe3+
Rf2 68. Qd4 a3 69. Qd1+ Rf1 70. Qe2 Rf2 71. Qe1+ Rf1 72. Qe3+ Rf2 73. Qd4 a2
74. Qd1+ Rf1 75. Qe2 Rf2 76. Qe1+ Rf1 77. Qe3+ Rf2 78. Qd4 a4 79. Qd1+ Rf1 80.
Qe2 Rf2 81. Qe1+ Rf1 82. Qe3+ Rf2 83. Qd4 a3 84. Qd1+ Rf1 85. Qe2 Rf2 86. Qe1+
Rf1 87. Qe3+ Rf2 88. Qd4 a1=Q 89. Qxa1+ Rf1 90. Qc3 Rf4 91. Qe3+ Rf2 92. Qd4 a2
93. Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1 96. Qe3+ Rf2 97. Qd4 c5 98. Qd1+ Rf1 99.
Qe2 Rf2 100. Qe1+ Rf1 101. Qe3+ Rf2 102. Qc1+ Rf1 103. Qxc5+ Rf2 104. Qd4 a1=N
105. Qxa1+ Rf1 106. Qa7+ Rf2 107. Qd4 f4 108. Qd1+ Rf1 109. Qe2 Rf2 110. Qg4+
Kh1 111. Qd1+ Rf1 112. Qxf1#) 11... Rf2 12. Qd4 c6 (12... a2 $6 13. Qd1+ Rf1
14. Qd5 Rf2 15. Qd4 a3 16. Qd1+ Rf1 17. Qd5 Rf2 18. Qd4 a5 19. Qd1+ Rf1 20. Qd5
Rf2 21. Qd4 a4 22. Qd1+ Rf1 23. Qd5 Rf2 24. Qd4 a6 25. Qd1+ Rf1 26. Qd5 Rf2 27.
Qd4 a5 28. Qd1+ Rf1 29. Qd5 Rf2 30. Qd4 a1=Q 31. Qxa1+ Rf1 32. Qd4+ Rf2 33.
Qd1+ Rf1 34. Qd5 Rf2 35. Qd4 a2 36. Qd1+ Rf1 37. Qd5 Rf2 38. Qd4 a3 39. Qd1+
Rf1 40. Qd5 Rf2 41. Qd4 a4 42. Qd1+ Rf1 43. Qd5 Rf2 44. Qd4 c6 45. Qd1+ Rf1 46.
Qe2 Rf2 47. Qe1+ Rf1 48. Qe3+ Rf2 49. Qd4 a1=B 50. Qxa1+ Rf1 51. Qc3 Rf4 52.
Qc5+ Rf2 53. Qd4 a2 54. Qd1+ Rf1 55. Qe2 Rf2 56. Qe1+ Rf1 57. Qe3+ Rf2 58. Qd4
a3 59. Qd1+ Rf1 60. Qe2 Rf2 61. Qe1+ Rf1 62. Qe3+ Rf2 63. Qd4 c5 64. Qd1+ Rf1
65. Qe2 Rf2 66. Qe1+ Rf1 67. Qe3+ Rf2 68. Qc1+ Rf1 69. Qxc5+ Rf2 70. Qd4 a1=R
71. Qxa1+ Rf1 72. Qd4+ Rf2 73. Qd1+ Rf1 74. Qd5 Kf2 75. Qd2+ Kf3 76. Qg2+ Ke3
77. Qxf1 Kd2 78. Qa1 Ke3 79. Qxa3+ Ke4 80. Kxh4 f4 81. Qb4+ Ke3 82. Kg4 f3 83.
Qf4+ Kd3 84. Kxf3 f5 85. Qxf5+ Kc4 86. Ke3 Kb3 87. Kd4 Kb2 88. Qd5 Ka3 89. Kc3
Ka4 90. Qe5 Ka3 91. Qa5#) 13. Qd1+ Rf1 14. Qe2 Rf2 15. Qe1+ Rf1 16. Qe3+ Rf2
17. Qd4 a2 18. Qd1+ Rf1 19. Qe2 Rf2 20. Qe1+ Rf1 21. Qe3+ Rf2 22. Qd4 a3 23.
Qd1+ Rf1 24. Qe2 Rf2 25. Qe1+ Rf1 26. Qe3+ Rf2 27. Qd4 a5 28. Qd1+ Rf1 29. Qe2
Rf2 30. Qe1+ Rf1 31. Qe3+ Rf2 32. Qd4 a4 33. Qd1+ Rf1 34. Qe2 Rf2 35. Qe1+ Rf1
36. Qe3+ Rf2 37. Qd4 a6 38. Qd1+ Rf1 39. Qe2 Rf2 40. Qe1+ Rf1 41. Qe3+ Rf2 42.
Qd4 a5 43. Qd1+ Rf1 44. Qe2 Rf2 45. Qe1+ Rf1 46. Qe3+ Rf2 47. Qd4 a1=Q 48.
Qxa1+ Rf1 49. Qc3 Rf4 50. Qe3+ Rf2 51. Qd4 a2 52. Qd1+ Rf1 53. Qe2 Rf2 54. Qe1+
Rf1 55. Qe3+ Rf2 56. Qd4 a3 57. Qd1+ Rf1 58. Qe2 Rf2 59. Qe1+ Rf1 60. Qe3+ Rf2
61. Qd4 a4 62. Qd1+ Rf1 63. Qe2 Rf2 64. Qe1+ Rf1 65. Qe3+ Rf2 66. Qd4 a1=Q 67.
Qxa1+ Rf1 68. Qc3 Rf4 69. Qe3+ Rf2 70. Qd4 a2 71. Qd1+ Rf1 72. Qe2 Rf2 73. Qe1+
Rf1 74. Qe3+ Rf2 75. Qd4 a3 76. Qd1+ Rf1 77. Qe2 Rf2 78. Qe1+ Rf1 79. Qe3+ Rf2
80. Qd4 c5 (80... a1=Q $5 81. Qxa1+ Rf1 82. Qc3 Rf4 83. Qe3+ Rf2 84. Qd4 a2 85.
Qd1+ Rf1 86. Qe2 Rf2 87. Qe1+ Rf1 88. Qe3+ Rf2 89. Qd4 a1=N 90. Qxa1+ Rf1 91.
Qa7+ Rf2 92. Qd4 c5 93. Qd1+ Rf1 94. Qe2 Rf2 95. Qe1+ Rf1 96. Qe3+ Rf2 97. Qc1+
Rf1 98. Qxc5+ Rf2 99. Qd4 f4 100. Qd1+ Rf1 101. Qe2 Rf2 102. Qg4+ Kh1 103. Qd1+
Rf1 104. Qxf1#) 81. Qd1+ Rf1 82. Qe2 Rf2 83. Qe1+ Rf1 84. Qe3+ Rf2 85. Qc1+ Rf1
86. Qxc5+ Rf2 87. Qd4 a1=R 88. Qxa1+ Rf1 89. Qc3 Kf2 90. Qd2+ Kf3 91. Qg2+ Ke3
92. Qxf1 Kd2 93. Qa1 Ke3 94. Qxa3+ Ke4 95. Qb4+ Kd3 96. Kxh4 Ke3 97. Kg3 f4+
98. Qxf4+ Kd3 99. Kf2 Kc2 100. Qxf6 Kb3 101. Qd4 Ka2 102. Ke2 Ka3 103. Qb6 Ka4
104. Kd3 Ka3 105. Kc3 Ka4 106. Qb4# 1-0
[/pgn]
Peter.