Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

kgburcham wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Milos wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Milos wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.

John Nunn

http://en.chessbase.com/post/komodo-8-d ... d-part-one
says that was draw.

Who is right ?
Qe3 draws despite initial big score. It has been extensively analysed (beaten to death) and in all cases it ends up in a drawn 7-men endings.
at least read the whole thread before posting BS.

I already demonstrated white wins in all lines.
Hi troll, nice to see you again. Sorry, but you never ever managed to actually demonstrate anything in this forum so no point bothering with you...
on the contrary, I managed to demonstrated 99% of my views(1% weak moves are always excused), and also sparked a substantial amount(over 50%) of the most interesting chess discussions.

take even only this very position: I suggest for the first time Qb6 is the best move.
no one found it until now, including engines.
I cannot communicate with Lyudmil. would someone else post the position before this move Qb6. Lyudmil please do not reply, I never can follow your confusing posts. Let me clarify, post the position before this suggested move.
how I would love to mow my lawn instead of reading such confusing posts...

[d]Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46

here is the position, best move - Qb6
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

MikeB wrote:
BeyondCritics wrote:
Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.
This book was published recently, therefore Kasparov might have used Stockfish to analyze.
[d]Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46

My stockfish copy already computes for more than a few seconds and still cannot find the draw , showing 46.Ra6 Qe3 47.Dxd6 Re8 48.Qd7+ (not 48.Bf3? Qc1+ draw or 48.h4? Qxe4 draw ) Re7 49.Qc6
Whats' wrong with Qxb6?

latest dev SF-McB likes it a lot:

[pgn][Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.07.17"]
[Round "-"]
[White "SF-McBrain 170717 64 POP"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "360+6"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]


1. Qxb6 {+3.54/33 +350} Rxb6 {-2.74/29 +357} 2. Kf2 {+3.56/27 +354} Rb8
{-2.70/31 +349} 3. Ra7+ {+3.59/31 +340} Kg8 {-2.77/33 +343} 4. Kg3
{+3.69/30 +338} Rb6 {-2.33/31 +342} 5. Kh4 {+4.52/30 +326} Kh7
{-5.42/39 +271} 6. Kh5 {+5.16/30 +321} Bb8 {-6.19/39 +267} 7. Rd7
{+5.39/25 +325} Ra6 {-7.59/40 +247} 8. Rb7 {+5.79/26 +325} Bd6
{-6.63/30 +247} 9. Rxb5 {+5.99/25 +328} Ra2 {-9.09/35 +204} 10. Rb6
{+7.47/27 +327} Bf8 {-10.39/33 +202} 11. d6 {+8.80/28 +326} Rd2
{-8.55/31 +203} 12. Rb8 {+8.90/28 +330} Bxd6 {-9.68/30 +203} 13. Rd8
{+9.61/29 +322} Rf2 {-10.65/30 +203} 14. Rxd6 {+9.70/27 +325} Rf4
{-10.88/28 +202} 15. Bd5 {+9.88/29 +324} Rxf5+ {-11.57/30 +200} 16. Kh4
{+9.95/25 +327} Rf4+ {-11.78/33 +187} 17. Kg3 {+10.47/28 +325} Rf1
{-11.84/33 +147} 18. b5 {+15.06/24 +322} h5 {-16.12/30 +109} 19. b6
{+128.21/28 +316} Kh6 {-250.00/28 +104} 20. b7 {+128.36/28 +320}
1-0[/pgn]
nothing wrong, this is the best move.

indeed, I think it makes no sense at all to analyse an outlying branch in a position, where there are at least couple better moves for white, only because Deep Blue played it.

Deep Blue is known to be a weak engine.

I guess Kasparov commited hist mistakes much earlier, for example 1...e5(instead of the much better c5), and 3...a6(instead of the much better f5, the Schliemann, which should be leading to straightforward draw in an open simplified position in some 30 moves or so).

it is interesting why, even today, many will consider 3...a6 and the Berlin as superior moves to 3...f5?
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

for the time being waiting from Rodolfo to confirm he resigns or has hit drawn 7-men.

in any case, even if there are some miraculous drawing lines, those will be less than 5% of all available lines, as I have been seeing 300-500cps scores from SF for most of the lines.

possibly having an escape with 1 drawing move and 9 losing at each and every ply does not seem very much like a draw to me, more like an unusual combination of chance events.

patterns speak in white's favour, chance might be with black for a while, but it is patterns that matter and that is the difference between Kasparov and Nunn.

It is only natural for Kasparov to assess a position in which 9 out of 10 moves are winning, unnatural on the part of Nunn to claim a draw.

that is why Kasparov-Nunn games were always small disasters.
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Rodolfo Leoni
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Rodolfo Leoni »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:for the time being waiting from Rodolfo to confirm he resigns or has hit drawn 7-men.

in any case, even if there are some miraculous drawing lines, those will be less than 5% of all available lines, as I have been seeing 300-500cps scores from SF for most of the lines.

possibly having an escape with 1 drawing move and 9 losing at each and every ply does not seem very much like a draw to me, more like an unusual combination of chance events.

patterns speak in white's favour, chance might be with black for a while, but it is patterns that matter and that is the difference between Kasparov and Nunn.

It is only natural for Kasparov to assess a position in which 9 out of 10 moves are winning, unnatural on the part of Nunn to claim a draw.

that is why Kasparov-Nunn games were always small disasters.
You have some problems. It looks like you absolutely need to be right, to feel strong, to get other's acknowledgements. It's not related with chess, it could be about anything. Checkers, blackgammon, art... You should think your real life can be really damaged by this behavior. You can see other people avoiding talking with you or defining you "troll". This forum has little importance. But real life?

I guess you should stop a moment and reflect about impact your behavior has to your social relationships. And I'm saying it without any personal profit.

About the game, I don't resign a draw position because I don't want to grant you the "fool right".

[d]4r3/3k4/5R1p/2P5/4p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 9

Code: Select all

FEN: 4r3/3k4/5R1p/2P5/4p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 9

AsmFishW_2017-07-10_popcnt:
 8/10	00:00	 992	992k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1
 9/10	00:00	 1k	1,198k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1
 10/11	00:00	 2k	1,532k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5
 11/13	00:00	 2k	2,065k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 12/13	00:00	 3k	2,670k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 13/13	00:00	 3k	3,382k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 14/13	00:00	 4k	3,962k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 15/13	00:00	 5k	4,962k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 16/13	00:00	 7k	6,783k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 17/13	00:00	 8k	7,994k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 18/13	00:00	 9k	4,607k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 19/13	00:00	 10k	5,193k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 20/13	00:00	 12k	5,886k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 21/13	00:00	 13k	6,645k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 22/13	00:00	 15k	7,369k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 23/13	00:00	 16k	8,106k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 24/13	00:00	 18k	9,061k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 25/13	00:00	 20k	6,695k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 26/13	00:00	 22k	7,414k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 27/13	00:00	 25k	8,178k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 28/13	00:00	 28k	9,260k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 29/13	00:00	 31k	7,742k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 30/13	00:00	 34k	8,479k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 31/13	00:00	 37k	9,292k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 32/13	00:00	 41k	8,156k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 33/13	00:00	 44k	8,879k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 34/13	00:00	 49k	9,892k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 35/13	00:00	 55k	9,104k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 36/13	00:00	 56k	9,403k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 37/13	00:00	 62k	8,887k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 38/13	00:00	 69k	8,668k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 39/13	00:00	 76k	9,456k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 40/13	00:00	 110k	9,196k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 41/13	00:00	 118k	9,108k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 42/13	00:00	 144k	9,609k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 43/13	00:00	 170k	9,467k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 44/13	00:00	 195k	9,730k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 45/13	00:00	 204k	9,713k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 46/13	00:00	 211k	10,041k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 47/13	00:00	 219k	9,973k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 48/13	00:00	 229k	9,947k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 49/13	00:00	 234k	10,171k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 50/13	00:00	 243k	10,110k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 51/13	00:00	 377k	11,075k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 52/13	00:00	 431k	11,052k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 53/13	00:00	 517k	11,480k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 54/13	00:00	 596k	11,681k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 55/13	00:00	 1,183k	11,374k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 56/13	00:00	 1,195k	11,380k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 57/13	00:00	 1,211k	11,315k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 58/13	00:00	 1,322k	10,251k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 59/13	00:00	 1,448k	8,779k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 60/13	00:00	 1,567k	7,877k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 61/13	00:00	 1,683k	7,351k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 62/13	00:00	 2,760k	5,412k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 63/13	00:00	 2,984k	5,329k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 64/13	00:00	 3,203k	5,277k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 65/13	00:00	 3,421k	5,153k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 66/13	00:00	 3,629k	5,061k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 67/13	00:00	 3,854k	4,966k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 68/13	00:00	 4,091k	4,893k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 69/13	00:00	 4,491k	4,793k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 70/13	00:01	 4,833k	4,683k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 71/13	00:01	 5,152k	4,592k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 72/13	00:11	 67,439k	5,775k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 73/13	00:12	 77,855k	6,034k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 74/13	00:13	 80,042k	6,086k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 75/13	00:19	 133,138k	6,947k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 76/13	00:23	 169,760k	7,274k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 77/13	00:26	 199,708k	7,416k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 78/13	00:48	 372,703k	7,652k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 79/13	01:25	 656,715k	7,720k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 80/13	02:37	 1,189,484k	7,540k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 81/13	04:47	 2,119,548k	7,365k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 82/13	04:48	 2,122,377k	7,364k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 83/13	05:00	 2,207,155k	7,355k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 84/13	06:06	 2,657,822k	7,251k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 85/13	06:47	 2,935,947k	7,204k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 86/13	08:03	 3,458,982k	7,147k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 87/13	09:33	 4,023,840k	7,015k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 88/13	11:32	 4,771,115k	6,893k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 89/13	12:18	 5,052,260k	6,842k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 90/13	15:44	 6,368,477k	6,742k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 91/13	15:46	 6,383,281k	6,741k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 92/13	16:20	 6,603,119k	6,732k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
I hope depth 92 is enough. BTW, this is a 7 years old PC, slow and with 4 GB RAM. Only 5 men TBs, but one only needs how to play rook endings for a position like that. It's a clear draw.
F.S.I. Chess Teacher
Top
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:for the time being waiting from Rodolfo to confirm he resigns or has hit drawn 7-men.

in any case, even if there are some miraculous drawing lines, those will be less than 5% of all available lines, as I have been seeing 300-500cps scores from SF for most of the lines.

possibly having an escape with 1 drawing move and 9 losing at each and every ply does not seem very much like a draw to me, more like an unusual combination of chance events.

patterns speak in white's favour, chance might be with black for a while, but it is patterns that matter and that is the difference between Kasparov and Nunn.

It is only natural for Kasparov to assess a position in which 9 out of 10 moves are winning, unnatural on the part of Nunn to claim a draw.

that is why Kasparov-Nunn games were always small disasters.
You have some problems. It looks like you absolutely need to be right, to feel strong, to get other's acknowledgements. It's not related with chess, it could be about anything. Checkers, blackgammon, art... You should think your real life can be really damaged by this behavior. You can see other people avoiding talking with you or defining you "troll". This forum has little importance. But real life?

I guess you should stop a moment and reflect about impact your behavior has to your social relationships. And I'm saying it without any personal profit.

About the game, I don't resign a draw position because I don't want to grant you the "fool right".

[d]4r3/3k4/5R1p/2P5/4p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 9

Code: Select all

FEN: 4r3/3k4/5R1p/2P5/4p2P/4K3/8/8 b - - 0 9

AsmFishW_2017-07-10_popcnt:
 8/10	00:00	 992	992k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1
 9/10	00:00	 1k	1,198k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1
 10/11	00:00	 2k	1,532k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5
 11/13	00:00	 2k	2,065k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 12/13	00:00	 3k	2,670k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 13/13	00:00	 3k	3,382k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 14/13	00:00	 4k	3,962k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 15/13	00:00	 5k	4,962k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 16/13	00:00	 7k	6,783k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 17/13	00:00	 8k	7,994k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 18/13	00:00	 9k	4,607k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 19/13	00:00	 10k	5,193k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 20/13	00:00	 12k	5,886k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 21/13	00:00	 13k	6,645k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 22/13	00:00	 15k	7,369k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 23/13	00:00	 16k	8,106k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 24/13	00:00	 18k	9,061k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 25/13	00:00	 20k	6,695k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 26/13	00:00	 22k	7,414k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 27/13	00:00	 25k	8,178k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 28/13	00:00	 28k	9,260k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 29/13	00:00	 31k	7,742k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 30/13	00:00	 34k	8,479k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 31/13	00:00	 37k	9,292k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 32/13	00:00	 41k	8,156k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 33/13	00:00	 44k	8,879k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 34/13	00:00	 49k	9,892k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 35/13	00:00	 55k	9,104k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 36/13	00:00	 56k	9,403k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 37/13	00:00	 62k	8,887k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 38/13	00:00	 69k	8,668k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 39/13	00:00	 76k	9,456k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 40/13	00:00	 110k	9,196k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 41/13	00:00	 118k	9,108k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 42/13	00:00	 144k	9,609k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 43/13	00:00	 170k	9,467k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 44/13	00:00	 195k	9,730k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 45/13	00:00	 204k	9,713k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 46/13	00:00	 211k	10,041k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 47/13	00:00	 219k	9,973k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 48/13	00:00	 229k	9,947k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 49/13	00:00	 234k	10,171k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 50/13	00:00	 243k	10,110k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 51/13	00:00	 377k	11,075k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 52/13	00:00	 431k	11,052k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 53/13	00:00	 517k	11,480k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 54/13	00:00	 596k	11,681k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 55/13	00:00	 1,183k	11,374k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 56/13	00:00	 1,195k	11,380k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 57/13	00:00	 1,211k	11,315k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 58/13	00:00	 1,322k	10,251k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 59/13	00:00	 1,448k	8,779k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 60/13	00:00	 1,567k	7,877k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 61/13	00:00	 1,683k	7,351k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 62/13	00:00	 2,760k	5,412k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 63/13	00:00	 2,984k	5,329k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 64/13	00:00	 3,203k	5,277k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 65/13	00:00	 3,421k	5,153k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 66/13	00:00	 3,629k	5,061k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 67/13	00:00	 3,854k	4,966k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 68/13	00:00	 4,091k	4,893k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 69/13	00:00	 4,491k	4,793k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 70/13	00:01	 4,833k	4,683k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 71/13	00:01	 5,152k	4,592k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 72/13	00:11	 67,439k	5,775k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 73/13	00:12	 77,855k	6,034k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 74/13	00:13	 80,042k	6,086k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 75/13	00:19	 133,138k	6,947k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 76/13	00:23	 169,760k	7,274k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 77/13	00:26	 199,708k	7,416k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 78/13	00:48	 372,703k	7,652k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 79/13	01:25	 656,715k	7,720k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 80/13	02:37	 1,189,484k	7,540k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 81/13	04:47	 2,119,548k	7,365k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 82/13	04:48	 2,122,377k	7,364k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 83/13	05:00	 2,207,155k	7,355k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 84/13	06:06	 2,657,822k	7,251k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 85/13	06:47	 2,935,947k	7,204k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 86/13	08:03	 3,458,982k	7,147k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 87/13	09:33	 4,023,840k	7,015k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 88/13	11:32	 4,771,115k	6,893k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 89/13	12:18	 5,052,260k	6,842k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 90/13	15:44	 6,368,477k	6,742k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 91/13	15:46	 6,383,281k	6,741k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
 92/13	16:20	 6,603,119k	6,732k	 0.00	9. ... Re5 10.c6+ Kc7 11.Rxh6 Re8 12.h5 Re5 13.Kf2 Rf5+ 14.Ke1 Re5 15.Kf2
I hope depth 92 is enough. BTW, this is a 7 years old PC, slow and with 4 GB RAM. Only 5 men TBs, but one only needs how to play rook endings for a position like that. It's a clear draw.
you can not call a position with a pawn more, more active rook and more active king a clear draw.

rather, if draw, it is a very chance draw, one in 10 or so.

pure chance.

when 9/10 of all lines are evaluated with 200+cps, and only 1/10, a very small path, would be more or less close to 0, you can not speak of a clear draw.

of course, Kasparov knows much better than Nunn.

my personal relationships don't concern you in any way at all, and I don't care about yours.

you seem to miss the whole lot of positive feedback, but that is your own problem.

it is always difficult to communicate with Rybka fans...
Top
Rodolfo Leoni
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Rodolfo Leoni »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: you can not call a position with a pawn more, more active rook and more active king a clear draw.

rather, if draw, it is a very chance draw, one in 10 or so.

pure chance.

when 9/10 of all lines are evaluated with 200+cps, and only 1/10, a very small path, would be more or less close to 0, you can not speak of a clear draw.

of course, Kasparov knows much better than Nunn.

my personal relationships don't concern you in any way at all, and I don't care about yours.

you seem to miss the whole lot of positive feedback, but that is your own problem.

it is always difficult to communicate with Rybka fans...
Then, I assume:

1. You don't know how to play chess;
2. I'm not talking with an aware soul, but only with a "I know everything" mechanism;
3. To continue with this "game" (not real chess) is to waste time;
4. Rybka fan? You didn't get any sense of my opinion. V.R. cloned parts of Fruit and Crafty, and it's an heavy issue.

You can autoplay the position. Maybe, you could open your own topic about it. Be sure, nobody will distract you.
F.S.I. Chess Teacher
Top
Rodolfo Leoni
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Rodolfo Leoni »

MikeB wrote: Whats' wrong with Qxb6?

latest dev SF-McB likes it a lot:

[pgn][Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.07.17"]
[Round "-"]
[White "SF-McBrain 170717 64 POP"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "360+6"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]


1. Qxb6 {+3.54/33 +350} Rxb6 {-2.74/29 +357} 2. Kf2 {+3.56/27 +354} Rb8
{-2.70/31 +349} 3. Ra7+ {+3.59/31 +340} Kg8 {-2.77/33 +343} 4. Kg3
{+3.69/30 +338} Rb6 {-2.33/31 +342} 5. Kh4 {+4.52/30 +326} Kh7
{-5.42/39 +271} 6. Kh5 {+5.16/30 +321} Bb8 {-6.19/39 +267} 7. Rd7
{+5.39/25 +325} Ra6 {-7.59/40 +247} 8. Rb7 {+5.79/26 +325} Bd6
{-6.63/30 +247} 9. Rxb5 {+5.99/25 +328} Ra2 {-9.09/35 +204} 10. Rb6
{+7.47/27 +327} Bf8 {-10.39/33 +202} 11. d6 {+8.80/28 +326} Rd2
{-8.55/31 +203} 12. Rb8 {+8.90/28 +330} Bxd6 {-9.68/30 +203} 13. Rd8
{+9.61/29 +322} Rf2 {-10.65/30 +203} 14. Rxd6 {+9.70/27 +325} Rf4
{-10.88/28 +202} 15. Bd5 {+9.88/29 +324} Rxf5+ {-11.57/30 +200} 16. Kh4
{+9.95/25 +327} Rf4+ {-11.78/33 +187} 17. Kg3 {+10.47/28 +325} Rf1
{-11.84/33 +147} 18. b5 {+15.06/24 +322} h5 {-16.12/30 +109} 19. b6
{+128.21/28 +316} Kh6 {-250.00/28 +104} 20. b7 {+128.36/28 +320}
1-0[/pgn]
Your engine is really great! The most interesting Fish fork. :)

I tried a search with McBrain 2.6 but it finds 46.Qd7+ as the best move. Then, I tried to make the 46.Qxb6 move with engine searching in infinite mode, and I got a huge fail high. When taking the move back, McBrain retained PV nodes and scores.

[d]Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46

Code: Select all

FEN: Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46

McBrain_2017_v26_x64_modern:
 8/11	00:00	 2k	966k	+1.90	46.Ra6 Qe3 47.Qxd6 Re8 48.Bf3 Qc1+ 49.Kf2 Qd2+ 50.Be2 Qf4+ 51.Ke1
 9/17	00:00	 17k	3,336k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3
 10/17	00:00	 18k	3,617k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3 Rd8 53.Ke4 Bd6
 11/20	00:00	 20k	4,081k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3 Rd8 53.Ke4 Bd6 54.Ra7 Rb8 55.Bh5 Rb6
 12/24	00:00	 23k	3,860k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3 Rd8 53.Ke4 Bd6 54.Ra7 Rb8 55.Bh5 Rb6 56.Ra8+ Rb8 57.Ra6 Rd8
 13/26	00:00	 26k	4,391k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3 Rd8 53.Ke4 Bd6 54.Ra7 Rb8 55.Bh5 Rb6 56.Ra8+ Rb8 57.Ra6 Rd8 58.Rb6 Kf8
 14/28	00:00	 30k	4,301k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3 Rd8 53.Ke4 Bd6 54.Ra7 Rb8 55.Bh5 Rb6 56.Ra8+ Rb8 57.Ra6 Rd8 58.Rb6 Kf8 59.Rxb5 Ke7
 15/29	00:00	 35k	4,425k	+2.56	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Kf3 Kh7 51.Ke3 Kg8 52.Bf3 Rd8 53.Ke4 Bd6 54.Ra7 Rb8 55.Bh5 Rb6 56.Ra8+ Rb8 57.Ra6 Rd8 58.Rb6 Kf8 59.Rxb5 Ke7 60.Be2
 16/33	00:00	 43k	4,778k	+2.75	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 h5 51.Bf3 g6 52.Ke4 gxf5+ 53.Kxf5 Bg7 54.d6 Rd8 55.Rb6 h4 56.Ke6 e4 57.Bxe4
 17/33	00:00	 61k	5,113k	+2.75	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 h5 51.Bf3 g6 52.Ke4 gxf5+ 53.Kxf5 Rd8 54.Rb6 Bh6 55.Rxb5 Bd2 56.Kxf6 Kf8 57.Kxe5 Bxc3+ 58.Ke6 Re8+ 59.Kd7 Bd4 60.d6
 18/33	00:00	 65k	5,006k	+2.75	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 h5 51.Bf3 g6 52.Ke4 gxf5+ 53.Kxf5 Rd8 54.Rb6 Bh6 55.Rxb5 Bd2 56.Kxf6 Kf8 57.Kxe5 Bxc3+ 58.Ke6 Re8+ 59.Kd7 Re7+ 60.Kc6 h4
 19/33	00:00	 102k	5,114k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 h5 51.Bf3 g6 52.Ke4 gxf5+ 53.Kxf5 Rd8 54.Rb6 Bh6 55.Rxb5 Bd2 56.Kxf6 Kf8 57.Kxe5 Bxc3+ 58.Ke6 Bd4 59.d6 c3 60.Rf5+ Kg7 61.Be4
 20/36	00:00	 185k	5,436k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 h5 51.Bf3 g6 52.Ke4 Kg7 53.Ra7+ Kh6 54.Rf7 Kg5 55.h4+ Kxh4 56.fxg6 Bh6 57.Rxf6 Kg5 58.Rf5+ Kxg6 59.Bxh5+ Kg7 60.d6 Bd2 61.Rf3 Kh6 62.Bg4 Kg7 63.Kxe5 Rf8
 21/36	00:00	 305k	6,092k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 h5 51.Bf3 g6 52.Ke4 Kg7 53.Ra7+ Kh6 54.Rf7 Kg5 55.h4+ Kxh4 56.fxg6 Bh6 57.Rxf6 Kg5 58.Rf5+ Kxg6 59.Bxh5+ Kg7 60.d6 Bd2 61.Rf3 Kh6 62.Bg4
 22/41	00:00	 721k	5,186k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kg8 49.Ra6 Bf8 50.Ke3 Kh7 51.Bf3 h5 52.h4 e4 53.Kxe4 Rd8 54.Bxh5 Bd6 55.Bg6+ Kg8 56.Rxd6 Rxd6 57.Be8 Kf8 58.Bxb5 Rb6 59.Bxc4 Ke7 60.b5 Kd6 61.Kd4 Rb8 62.Bd3
 23/41	00:00	 1,052k	5,453k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rd7 49.Kg4 Bc7 50.Ra7 Ke7 51.Rb7 Bd6 52.Rxb5 Ra7 53.Kh5 Kd7 54.Kg6 Ra3 55.Rb7+ Bc7 56.b5 Kc8 57.d6 Bxd6 58.Rxg7 Rxc3 59.Kxf6 Rb3 60.Ke6 Ba3 61.Rg8+ Kc7 62.Ra8 Bc5 63.Kd5 Be7 64.Ra7+ Kd8 65.Rb7
 24/43	00:01	 5,806k	5,519k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 h5 50.Kg3 Be7 51.Kh4 g6 52.d6 g5+ 53.Kxh5 Bxd6 54.Kg6 Be7 55.Bc6 Rc8 56.Bd7 Rd8 57.Bxb5 Rd6 58.Bxc4 e4 59.Ra8+ Bd8 60.Bb5 e3 61.c4 Rd4 62.c5 Ke7 63.Ra7+ Kf8
 25/43	00:01	 7,341k	5,520k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rd7 49.Kg4 Bc7 50.Ra7 Ke7 51.Rb7 Bd6 52.Rxb5 Ra7 53.Kh5 Kd7 54.Kg6 Ra3 55.Rb7+ Bc7 56.b5 Kc8 57.d6 Bxd6 58.Rxg7 Rxc3 59.Kxf6 Rb3 60.Ke6 Ba3 61.Rg8+ Kc7 62.Ra8 Bc5 63.Kd5 Be7 64.Ra7+ Kd8 65.Rb7
 26/51	00:01	 8,736k	5,471k	+2.64	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rd7 49.Kg4 Bc7 50.Ra7 Ke7 51.Rb7 Bd6 52.Rxb5 Ra7 53.Kh5 Ra3 54.Rb7+ Kd8 55.Kg6 Rxc3 56.Kxg7 Rb3 57.Kxf6 Rxb4 58.Rxb4 Bxb4 59.Ke6 Bd2 60.d6 Bf4 61.Bc2 h5 62.g4 hxg4
 27/51	00:01	 9,951k	5,435k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rd7 49.Kg4 Bc7 50.Ra7 Ke7 51.Rb7 Bd6 52.Rxb5 Ra7 53.Kh5 Kd7 54.Kg6 Ra3 55.Rb7+ Bc7 56.b5 Kc8 57.d6 Bxd6 58.Rxg7 Rxc3 59.Kxf6 Rb3 60.Ke6 Ba3 61.Rg8+ Kc7 62.Ra8 Bc5 63.Kd5 Be7 64.Ra7+ Kd8 65.Rb7 c3
 28/51	00:01	 10,476k	5,420k	+2.53	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rd7 49.Kg4 Bc7 50.Ra7 Ke7 51.Rb7 Bd6 52.Rxb5 Ra7 53.Kh5 Ra3 54.Rb7+ Ke8 55.Kg6 Rxc3 56.Kxg7 Rb3 57.b5 Be7 58.g4 c3 59.d6 Bxd6 60.Kxf6 Kd8 61.Ke6 Bc5 62.f6 Rb2 63.Rd7+ Kc8
 29/52	00:03	 19,544k	5,268k	+2.82	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Be7 48.Kg3 Rd6 49.Ra5 Rb6 50.Ra7 Kf8 51.Kg4 Bd8 52.Kh5 Rd6 53.Kg6 Bb6 54.Rxg7 Bf2 55.Rb7 Be1 56.Kxh6 Bxc3 57.Rxb5 Be1 58.Kg6 Ke7 59.Rc5 c3 60.g4 Rb6 61.b5 Bh4
 30/52	00:06	 31,814k	5,179k	+2.85	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Be7 48.Kg3 Rd6 49.Ra5 Rb6 50.Ra7 Kf8 51.Kg4 Bd8 52.Kh5 Rd6 53.Kg6 Bb6 54.Rxg7 Bf2 55.Rb7 Be1 56.Kxh6 Bxc3 57.Rxb5 Bd4 58.Kg6 c3 59.g4 Ke7 60.Rb7+ Rd7 61.Rxd7+ Kxd7 62.Kxf6 c2 63.Bxc2 e4+ 64.Kg6 e3
 31/55	00:08	 41,064k	5,106k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Be7 48.Kg3 Rd6 49.Ra5 Rb6 50.Ra7 Kf8 51.Kg4 Bd8 52.Kh5 Rd6 53.Kg6 Bb6 54.Rxg7 Bf2 55.Rb7 Be1 56.Kxh6 Bxc3 57.Rxb5 Be1 58.Kg6 c3 59.g4 Ke7 60.Rb7+ Kd8 61.Rb8+ Kc7 62.Rf8 Bh4 63.Rh8 Be1 64.g5 fxg5+ 65.f6
 32/55	00:09	 47,263k	5,081k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra6 Rd8 50.Rb6 h5 51.Rxb5 Ke8 52.Ra5 Bf8 53.Ra7 Rd7 54.Ra4 Rd6 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra8+ Rd8 57.Ra6 Rd7 58.Rc6 Rd8 59.Rc7 Kf8 60.Kf3 Rd6 61.Rxc4 Rd8 62.Rc6 Rd6 63.Rc7 Rb6 64.Rc4
 33/55	00:10	 50,950k	5,048k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra6 Rd8 50.Rb6 h5 51.Rxb5 Ke8 52.Ra5 Bf8 53.Ra7 Rd7 54.Ra4 Rd6 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra8+ Rd8 57.Ra6 Rd7 58.Rc6 Rd8 59.Rc7 Kf8 60.Rxc4 Ke8 61.Rc6 Kd7 62.b5 Rb8 63.c4 Bd8 64.Bd3 e4 65.Bxe4
 34/55	00:10	 54,469k	5,004k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra6 Rd8 50.Rb6 h5 51.Rxb5 Ke8 52.Ra5 Bf8 53.Ra7 Rd7 54.Ra4 Rd6 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra8+ Rd8 57.Ra6 Rd7 58.Rc6 Rd8 59.Rc7 Kf8 60.Kf3 Bd6 61.Rxc4 Ke7 62.Kg3 Rb8 63.Kh4 Rh8 64.Rc6 Kd7 65.b5
 35/55-	00:11	 56,295k	4,977k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 35/55+	00:12	 62,154k	4,929k	+2.86	46.Qxb6
 35/55	00:12	 62,240k	4,928k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra6 Rd8 50.Rb6 h5 51.Rxb5 Ke8 52.Ra5 Bf8 53.Ra7 Rd7 54.Ra4 Rd6 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra8+ Rd8 57.Ra6 Rd7 58.Rc6 Rd8 59.Rc7 Kf8 60.Kf3 Bd6 61.Rxc4 Ke7 62.Kg3 Rb8 63.Kh4 Rh8 64.Rc6 Kd7
 36/55	00:12	 62,769k	4,922k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra6 Rd8 50.Rb6 h5 51.Rxb5 Ke8 52.Ra5 Bf8 53.Ra7 Rd7 54.Ra4 Rd6 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra8+ Rd8 57.Ra6 Rd7 58.Rc6 Rd8 59.Rc7 Kf8 60.Kf3 Bd6 61.Rxc4 Ke7 62.Kg3 Rb8 63.Kh4 Rh8 64.Rc6 Kd7 65.b5 Be7 66.b6
 37/55-	00:16	 80,261k	4,778k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 37/55+	00:19	 94,086k	4,709k	+2.86	46.Qxb6
 37/57	00:20	 96,459k	4,693k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Kg8 50.Ra6 Bf8 51.Ke3 Rd8 52.Rb6 Kf7 53.Rxb5 Bd6 54.Kf3 Ra8 55.Rb7+ Ke8 56.Rb6 Kd7 57.Rc6 Rh8 58.Ra6 Bc7 59.Kg4 h5+ 60.Kh4 Bd6 61.Ra5 Bc7 62.Ra7 Kd6 63.Ra6+ Kd7 64.b5 Rb8 65.Kxh5 Rxb5 66.Kg6 Rb3 67.Kxg7 Bd8 68.Ra7+ Kd6 69.Ra8 Kd7 70.Bc2 Rb6 71.Kf7 Bc7 72.Be4 Rb3 73.Kxf6 Rxc3 74.Ra4
 38/60	00:34	 155,500k	4,518k	+2.86	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Kg8 50.Ra6 Bf8 51.Ke3 Rd8 52.Rb6 Kf7 53.Rxb5 Ke8 54.Kf3 h5 55.Ra5 Bd6 56.Kg3 Kd7 57.Ra7+ Bc7 58.Kh4 Rh8 59.Ra6 Bd6 60.Ra5 Rh7 61.Ra7+ Kc8 62.Kg3 Bb8 63.Ra6 h4+ 64.Kg4 Rh8 65.b5 Kd7 66.Rc6 Bd6 67.b6 Rb8 68.Kxh4 Be7 69.Kh5 Bd8 70.Kg6
 39/60-	00:52	 228,489k	4,380k	+2.79	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 39/60-	00:52	 230,207k	4,378k	+2.72	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 39/60+	00:56	 248,240k	4,360k	+2.79	46.Qxb6
 39/60-	00:57	 250,313k	4,358k	+2.70	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 39/60+	00:58	 256,336k	4,354k	+2.82	46.Qxb6
 39/67-	01:09	 303,544k	4,340k	+2.65	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 39/67	01:12	 316,097k	4,338k	+2.83	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Rb6 50.Ra8+ Rb8 51.Ra6 Rd8 52.Ra7 Rb8 53.Rd7 Rb6 54.Rd8+ Ke7 55.Ra8 h5 56.Ra7+ Kd8 57.Kg3 Bb8 58.Rxg7 Bd6 59.Kh4 Bf8 60.Ra7 Bh6 61.Ra2 Ke7 62.Kxh5 Bf4 63.g4 Bg3 64.Ra7+ Kf8 65.h4 Be1 66.g5 Bxc3 67.Kg6 Bd4 68.Rf7+ Ke8 69.Rxf6 Ke7 70.Rxb6 Bxb6
 40/67-	01:16	 331,282k	4,330k	+2.76	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 40/67+	01:18	 341,523k	4,326k	+2.83	46.Qxb6
 40/67-	01:20	 348,045k	4,324k	+2.76	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 40/67-	02:36	 656,031k	4,200k	+2.61	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 40/67+	02:37	 659,888k	4,200k	+2.73	46.Qxb6
 40/67	02:42	 683,892k	4,197k	+2.84	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Ke7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra7+ Kf8 50.Ra6 Rd8 51.Kg4 Bc7 52.Kh5 Rd6 53.Ra8+ Rd8 54.Ra7 Bb6 55.Rb7 Rd6 56.Kg6 Be3 57.Rb8+ Ke7 58.Kxg7 Bd2 59.Rxb5 Bxc3 60.Kxh6 Be1 61.Kg6 c3 62.Rc5 Ra6 63.g4 Rb6 64.b5 Bh4 65.Rxc3 Rxb5 66.Rc7+ Kd6 67.Rc6+ Ke7 68.Re6+ Kd7 69.Kh5 Bg5 70.h4 Be3 71.Kg6 Rb4 72.Bf3 Rb6 73.Kxf6 Rxe6+ 74.dxe6+ Kd6
 41/67+	03:39	 915,500k	4,176k	+2.91	46.Qxb6
 41/67-	03:45	 941,743k	4,174k	+2.84	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 41/67+	03:59	 999,258k	4,171k	+2.91	46.Qxb6
 41/67	04:37	 1,154,177k	4,159k	+2.93	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb7 48.Kf3 Rb8 49.Ra6 Rd8 50.Ra7+ Kg8 51.Ra5 Rb8 52.Ra6 Bf8 53.Ke3 Rd8 54.Rb6 Kf7 55.Rxb5 Ke8 56.Kf3 h5 57.Ra5 Bd6 58.Kg3 Be7 59.Ra6 Rd6 60.Ra8+ Rd8 61.Ra5 Kd7 62.Ra7+ Kd6 63.Ra6+ Kc7 64.Rc6+ Kb8 65.Kh4 g6 66.Re6 gxf5 67.Bxf5 Bd6 68.Kxh5 Kc7 69.h4
 42/67	06:29	 1,609,590k	4,138k	+2.95	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Kg8 50.Ra6 Bf8 51.Ke3 Rd8 52.Rb6 Kf7 53.Rxb5 Ke8 54.Kf3 h5 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra5 Kd7 57.Ra7+ Kd6 58.Rb7 Rh8 59.Rb6+ Kd7 60.Rc6 Rc8 61.Rxc8 Kxc8 62.Kh4 Kd7 63.Kxh5 Ke8 64.Kg6 Kf8 65.h4 Kg8 66.h5 Kf8 67.b5 Bc5 68.h6 gxh6 69.Kxf6 Bb6 70.d6
 43/67+	08:35	 2,117,543k	4,105k	+3.02	46.Qxb6
 43/67	09:58	 2,449,544k	4,095k	+3.08	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Kg8 50.Ra6 Bf8 51.Ke3 Rd8 52.Rb6 Kf7 53.Rxb5 Ke8 54.Kf3 h5 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra5 Kd7 57.Ra7+ Kd6 58.Ra6+ Kd7 59.Kh4 Rh8 60.Bc2 Kc7 61.Rc6+ Kd7 62.Ba4 Bf8 63.Bb5 Bd6 64.Rxc4+ Kd8 65.Rc6 Ke7 66.Ba4 e4 67.Rc4 e3 68.Re4+ Kd8 69.Rxe3 Kc7 70.Bc6 Be5 71.c4 Rb8 72.b5 Rh8 73.c5
 44/67	10:24	 2,556,473k	4,091k	+3.05	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Kg8 50.Ra6 Bf8 51.Ke3 Rd8 52.Rb6 Kf7 53.Rxb5 Ke8 54.Kf3 h5 55.Kg3 Be7 56.Ra5 Kd7 57.Ra7+ Kd6 58.Ra6+ Kd7 59.Kh4 Rh8 60.Bc2 Kc7 61.Rc6+ Kd7 62.Ba4 Bf8 63.Bb5 Bd6 64.Rxc4+ Kd8 65.Rc6 Ke7 66.Ba4 e4 67.Rc4 e3 68.Re4+ Kd8 69.Rxe3 Kc7 70.Re6 Ra8 71.Bc6 Ra3 72.b5 Bc5 73.c4 Rc3 74.Kxh5 Rxc4 75.Kg6 Rh4 76.Kxg7
 45/68-	10:39	 2,613,643k	4,089k	+2.98	46.Qxb6 Rxb6
 45/70+	10:47	 2,646,731k	4,088k	+3.05	46.Qxb6
 45/70	15:38	 3,803,890k	4,053k	+3.15	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Kg8 50.Ra6 Bf8 51.Ke3 Rd8 52.Rb6 Kf7 53.Rxb5 Ke8 54.Kf3 h5 55.Ra5 Kd7 56.Ra7+ Kd6 57.Ra6+ Kd7 58.Kg3 Be7 59.Kh4 Rh8 60.Bc2 Kc7 61.Rc6+ Kd7 62.Ba4 Bd6 63.Rb6+ Kc7 64.Ra6 Bf8 65.Rc6+ Kd7 66.Bb5 Bd6 67.Rxc4+ Ke7 68.Rc6 Rb8 69.Bd3 e4 70.Bxe4 Kd7 71.Kxh5 Re8 72.Rc4 Rc8 73.Rxc8 Kxc8 74.Kg6 Kd7 75.Kxg7
 46/74	24:37	 5,882,869k	3,981k	+3.22	46.Qxb6 Rxb6 47.Kf2 Rb8 48.Ra7+ Kf8 49.Kf3 Rb6 50.Ra8+ Rb8 51.Ra6 Rd8 52.Kg4 Rd7 53.Kh5 Ke8 54.Ra8+ Kf7 55.Kg4 Bc7 56.Ra7 Ke7 57.Rb7 Bd6 58.Rxb5 Ra7 59.Kh5 Ra3 60.Rb7+ Kd8 61.Kg6 Rxc3 62.Kxg7 Re3 63.Bc2 Rb3 64.Kxf6 Rxb4 65.Rxb4 Bxb4 66.Ke6 Kc7 67.Be4 Bd2 68.g4 h5 69.gxh5 Kd8 70.f6 Bf4 71.Bc2 Bh6 72.Kxe5 Be3 73.Be4 Kd7 74.Bf5+ Kd8 75.Ke6 Ke8 76.Bg6+ Kd8 77.Bc2 Ke8
A "Temporary Persistent Hash"! :)
F.S.I. Chess Teacher
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: you can not call a position with a pawn more, more active rook and more active king a clear draw.

rather, if draw, it is a very chance draw, one in 10 or so.

pure chance.

when 9/10 of all lines are evaluated with 200+cps, and only 1/10, a very small path, would be more or less close to 0, you can not speak of a clear draw.

of course, Kasparov knows much better than Nunn.

my personal relationships don't concern you in any way at all, and I don't care about yours.

you seem to miss the whole lot of positive feedback, but that is your own problem.

it is always difficult to communicate with Rybka fans...
Then, I assume:

1. You don't know how to play chess;
2. I'm not talking with an aware soul, but only with a "I know everything" mechanism;
3. To continue with this "game" (not real chess) is to waste time;
4. Rybka fan? You didn't get any sense of my opinion. V.R. cloned parts of Fruit and Crafty, and it's an heavy issue.

You can autoplay the position. Maybe, you could open your own topic about it. Be sure, nobody will distract you.
1. I never read the full FIDE rules of chess, indeed.
2. you seem to have problems with open discussion
3. your present standpoint on VR dramatically clashes with your past opinion, expressed many times on this forum. maybe you change too quickly priorities and viewpoints, I don't know.
4. no one wants you to play any games at all. we are just discussing how this not so uninteresting position after all, will play out.
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Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Vinvin »

MikeB wrote:
BeyondCritics wrote:
Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Kanizsa wrote:In his recent book, Deep Thinking, Kasparov states that after 45. Ta6 ? the game was really lost, not draw as it was at that time thought.
This book was published recently, therefore Kasparov might have used Stockfish to analyze.
Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 46

My stockfish copy already computes for more than a few seconds and still cannot find the draw , showing 46.Ra6 Qe3 47.Dxd6 Re8 48.Qd7+ (not 48.Bf3? Qc1+ draw or 48.h4? Qxe4 draw ) Re7 49.Qc6
Whats' wrong with Qxb6?
The debate is about : is it draw after Ra6 or not ?
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Rodolfo Leoni
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

Post by Rodolfo Leoni »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: you can not call a position with a pawn more, more active rook and more active king a clear draw.

rather, if draw, it is a very chance draw, one in 10 or so.

pure chance.

when 9/10 of all lines are evaluated with 200+cps, and only 1/10, a very small path, would be more or less close to 0, you can not speak of a clear draw.

of course, Kasparov knows much better than Nunn.

my personal relationships don't concern you in any way at all, and I don't care about yours.

you seem to miss the whole lot of positive feedback, but that is your own problem.

it is always difficult to communicate with Rybka fans...
Then, I assume:

1. You don't know how to play chess;
2. I'm not talking with an aware soul, but only with a "I know everything" mechanism;
3. To continue with this "game" (not real chess) is to waste time;
4. Rybka fan? You didn't get any sense of my opinion. V.R. cloned parts of Fruit and Crafty, and it's an heavy issue.

You can autoplay the position. Maybe, you could open your own topic about it. Be sure, nobody will distract you.
1. I never read the full FIDE rules of chess, indeed.
2. you seem to have problems with open discussion
3. your present standpoint on VR dramatically clashes with your past opinion, expressed many times on this forum. maybe you change too quickly priorities and viewpoints, I don't know.
4. no one wants you to play any games at all. we are just discussing how this not so uninteresting position after all, will play out.
All right. I had to study FIDE rules because I played some tournaments. Last one, 17 years ago, I won with 6/7 and second was Master Isacco Ibba with 5/7. At least, I know some chess.

I'll be happy to see you having "open discussions" with someone else, then...

"dramatically clashes"...!!!

Please re-read my post about it. VR made great search breakthroughts. A pity he ruined his work at start because of cloning parts of Fruit and Crafty. That was the concept. If you can only duplicate half of it in your mind, it's your problem, not mine.

I invite you again to start a new thread with your analysis. It'll be like the one you opened with Aronian-Carlsen game. A thread only for you...
F.S.I. Chess Teacher
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