Kasparov-Deep Thought 1997 (second game)

[zullil]

so, chess base article is wrong: Ra6 was not a mistake, just not the best continuation.

dev-SF-McB agrees with you...

A very deep search by the latest asmFish followed by back-tracking through every move to the initial position suggests that Lyudmil and dev-SF-McB have reached the wrong conclusion. It seems that 45. Ra6 is indeed a blunder that converts a won position for White into a draw (though not an immediate one).

Here's what asmFish shows from the position after 45. Ra6 Qe3
[d] 1r6/5kp1/R1Qb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 15 46

Code: Select all

0.00 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qc7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Qxb5 Rd8 53. Qb7+ Kg8 54. Qe7 Qxd6 55. Qxd6 Rxd6 56. Ra8+ Kf7 57. Rc8 Rd1+ 58. Kh2 Ke7 59. Rxc4 Rf1 60. b5 Rb1 61. Rc7+ Kd6 62. Rxg7 Rxb5 63. Rf7 e4 64. Rxf6+ Ke5 65. Rf7 Rc5 66. Rf8 Rxc3 67. f6 Ke6 68. f7 Kf6 69. Re8 Kxf7 70. Rxe4 Kf6 71. Rf4+ Kg6 72. Rf3 Rc2 73. Rg3+ Kh6 74. Rd3 Kg5 75. Rd5+ Kg6 76. Kg3 h4+ 77. Kh2 Rc1 78. Rd6+ Kf5 79. Rd7 Kg5 80. Rf7 Rc4 81. Rf8 Rb4 82. Rd8 Rf4 83. Rd5+ Kf6 84. Rc5 Rb4 85. Kg1 Kg6 (depth 69, 11:57:32)

[Rodolfo Leoni]

so, chess base article is wrong: Ra6 was not a mistake, just not the best continuation.

dev-SF-McB agrees with you...
[d]Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1

[pgn][Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.07.20"]
[Round "-"]
[White "SF-McBrain 2.7 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Komodo 11.2 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "360+6"]
[FEN "Rr6/5kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/5K2 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]


1. Ra6 Qe3 2. Qxd6 {+0.76/31 +347} Re8 {-0.77/26 +351} 3. Qd7+
{+1.16/35 +324} Re7 {-0.73/27 +350} 4. Qc6 {+1.20/32 +318} Qxe4
{-0.60/28 +338} 5. d6 {+1.08/29 +322} Qxf5+ {-0.68/31 +299} 6. Kg1
{+0.93/37 +306} Rd7 {-0.75/29 +298} 7. Qxb5 {+0.66/27 +310} Qe6
{-0.75/31 +298} 8. Qc5 {+0.90/34 +298} Kg6 {-0.46/30 +294} 9. Rc6
{+0.63/28 +302} e4 {-0.45/28 +293} 10. Qxc4 {+0.69/35 +296} Qxc4
{-0.55/29 +288} 11. Rxc4 {+0.93/31 +299} Kf5 {-0.43/31 +283} 12. b5
{+0.83/34 +289} Ke5 {-0.56/30 +283} 13. Rb4 {+0.89/35 +288} Kxd6
{-0.64/32 +274} 14. Rd4+ {+1.29/31 +288} Kc7 {-0.88/32 +269} 15. Rxe4
{+1.16/32 +291} Kb6 {-0.70/33 +259} 16. c4 {+0.97/41 +237} Kc5
{-0.69/31 +258} 17. Kh2 {+0.89/39 +212} Rf7 {-0.68/35 +235} 18. Rf4
{+0.52/47 +198} Re7 {-0.97/35 +229} 19. Kg3 {+1.52/34 +194} Re6
{-1.23/36 +201} 20. Kf3 {+1.88/34 +186} g6 {-0.75/34 +197} 21. h4
{+2.76/33 +185} h5 {-1.14/34 +197} 22. g4 {+4.23/31 +185} hxg4+
{-3.03/35 +192} 23. Kxg4 {+4.72/28 +189} Kd6 {-4.41/36 +188} 24. h5
{+5.91/31 +186} gxh5+ {-5.56/37 +176} 25. Kxh5 {+7.27/31 +186} Ke5
{-6.34/38 +154} 26. Kg4 {+9.92/30 +176} Rb6 {-6.57/34 +156} 27. Kf3
{+10.51/30 +171} f5 {-6.64/35 +157} 28. Rh4 {+14.22/29 +160} Rb8
{-6.85/34 +155} 29. Ke2 {+15.14/27 +162} Rg8 {-6.80/33 +155} 30. Rh7
{+16.83/29 +162} Kd4 {-250.00/36 +142} 31. Rc7 {+107.91/30 +152} Rg2+
{-250.00/43 +147} 32. Kf3 {+3.19/29 +156} Rb2 {-250.00/42 +152} 33. Rc6
{+128.23/34 +149} Ke5 {-250.00/32 +156} 34. b6 {+128.28/30 +149}
{User adjudication} 1-0[/pgn]

Hi Mike,

I don't like 13. ..Kxd6. If white captures e4 pawn, his queen side pawn structure gets very strong. W King has no more worries about black pawns and it can support his Rook and pawns on Q side.

I'd rather play 13. ..Rxd6, which could possibly lead to 14.b6 Rd8 15.Kf2 f5

[d]3r4/6p1/1P5p/4kp2/1R2p3/2P4P/5KP1/8 w - - 0 60

I can't see how white can win from here.

Rodolfo

[MikeB]

so, chess base article is wrong: Ra6 was not a mistake, just not the best continuation.

dev-SF-McB agrees with you...

A very deep search by the latest asmFish followed by back-tracking through every move to the initial position suggests that Lyudmil and dev-SF-McB have reached the wrong conclusion. It seems that 45. Ra6 is indeed a blunder that converts a won position for White into a draw (though not an immediate one).

Here's what asmFish shows from the position after 45. Ra6 Qe3
[d] 1r6/5kp1/R1Qb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 15 46

Code: Select all

0.00 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qc7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Qxb5 Rd8 53. Qb7+ Kg8 54. Qe7 Qxd6 55. Qxd6 Rxd6 56. Ra8+ Kf7 57. Rc8 Rd1+ 58. Kh2 Ke7 59. Rxc4 Rf1 60. b5 Rb1 61. Rc7+ Kd6 62. Rxg7 Rxb5 63. Rf7 e4 64. Rxf6+ Ke5 65. Rf7 Rc5 66. Rf8 Rxc3 67. f6 Ke6 68. f7 Kf6 69. Re8 Kxf7 70. Rxe4 Kf6 71. Rf4+ Kg6 72. Rf3 Rc2 73. Rg3+ Kh6 74. Rd3 Kg5 75. Rd5+ Kg6 76. Kg3 h4+ 77. Kh2 Rc1 78. Rd6+ Kf5 79. Rd7 Kg5 80. Rf7 Rc4 81. Rf8 Rb4 82. Rd8 Rf4 83. Rd5+ Kf6 84. Rc5 Rb4 85. Kg1 Kg6 (depth 69, 11:57:32)

well it was dev-SF-McB vs K11.2 - dev-Sf-MCB vs dev-SF-McB ended in a draw in second game...so K11.2 might have misplayed it

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

so, chess base article is wrong: Ra6 was not a mistake, just not the best continuation.

dev-SF-McB agrees with you...

A very deep search by the latest asmFish followed by back-tracking through every move to the initial position suggests that Lyudmil and dev-SF-McB have reached the wrong conclusion. It seems that 45. Ra6 is indeed a blunder that converts a won position for White into a draw (though not an immediate one).

Here's what asmFish shows from the position after 45. Ra6 Qe3
[d] 1r6/5kp1/R1Qb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 15 46

Code: Select all

0.00 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qc7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Qxb5 Rd8 53. Qb7+ Kg8 54. Qe7 Qxd6 55. Qxd6 Rxd6 56. Ra8+ Kf7 57. Rc8 Rd1+ 58. Kh2 Ke7 59. Rxc4 Rf1 60. b5 Rb1 61. Rc7+ Kd6 62. Rxg7 Rxb5 63. Rf7 e4 64. Rxf6+ Ke5 65. Rf7 Rc5 66. Rf8 Rxc3 67. f6 Ke6 68. f7 Kf6 69. Re8 Kxf7 70. Rxe4 Kf6 71. Rf4+ Kg6 72. Rf3 Rc2 73. Rg3+ Kh6 74. Rd3 Kg5 75. Rd5+ Kg6 76. Kg3 h4+ 77. Kh2 Rc1 78. Rd6+ Kf5 79. Rd7 Kg5 80. Rf7 Rc4 81. Rf8 Rb4 82. Rd8 Rf4 83. Rd5+ Kf6 84. Rc5 Rb4 85. Kg1 Kg6 (depth 69, 11:57:32)

well it was dev-SF-McB vs K11.2 - dev-Sf-MCB vs dev-SF-McB ended in a draw in second game...so K11.2 might have misplayed it

whatever the legitimate conclusion of that game, with perfect play, and we will probably know this for certain in some 20-30 years or so, Kasparov resigning the game was not something unnatural, for:

1) he did not see the very engine like Re8 reply after Qd6 capture, and that is why he resigned, he thought he just loses a piece
2) as Mike's game also comes to show, white has the advantage and anything can happen in a real-life game, so why just give up on your edge?
3) it is obvious only one side can lose, and that is black
4) most likely, Kasparov would have lost the game one way or another, had he continued: too many engine-like moves to find in a position where he has to defend all the time

so that, I simply don't understand all the hullabaloo about why he resigned.

obviously, he had about 5% chances to save the game.

[Uri Blass]

so, chess base article is wrong: Ra6 was not a mistake, just not the best continuation.

dev-SF-McB agrees with you...

A very deep search by the latest asmFish followed by back-tracking through every move to the initial position suggests that Lyudmil and dev-SF-McB have reached the wrong conclusion. It seems that 45. Ra6 is indeed a blunder that converts a won position for White into a draw (though not an immediate one).

Here's what asmFish shows from the position after 45. Ra6 Qe3
[d] 1r6/5kp1/R1Qb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 15 46

Code: Select all

0.00 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qc7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Qxb5 Rd8 53. Qb7+ Kg8 54. Qe7 Qxd6 55. Qxd6 Rxd6 56. Ra8+ Kf7 57. Rc8 Rd1+ 58. Kh2 Ke7 59. Rxc4 Rf1 60. b5 Rb1 61. Rc7+ Kd6 62. Rxg7 Rxb5 63. Rf7 e4 64. Rxf6+ Ke5 65. Rf7 Rc5 66. Rf8 Rxc3 67. f6 Ke6 68. f7 Kf6 69. Re8 Kxf7 70. Rxe4 Kf6 71. Rf4+ Kg6 72. Rf3 Rc2 73. Rg3+ Kh6 74. Rd3 Kg5 75. Rd5+ Kg6 76. Kg3 h4+ 77. Kh2 Rc1 78. Rd6+ Kf5 79. Rd7 Kg5 80. Rf7 Rc4 81. Rf8 Rb4 82. Rd8 Rf4 83. Rd5+ Kf6 84. Rc5 Rb4 85. Kg1 Kg6 (depth 69, 11:57:32)

well it was dev-SF-McB vs K11.2 - dev-Sf-MCB vs dev-SF-McB ended in a draw in second game...so K11.2 might have misplayed it

whatever the legitimate conclusion of that game, with perfect play, and we will probably know this for certain in some 20-30 years or so, Kasparov resigning the game was not something unnatural, for:

1) he did not see the very engine like Re8 reply after Qd6 capture, and that is why he resigned, he thought he just loses a piece
2) as Mike's game also comes to show, white has the advantage and anything can happen in a real-life game, so why just give up on your edge?
3) it is obvious only one side can lose, and that is black
4) most likely, Kasparov would have lost the game one way or another, had he continued: too many engine-like moves to find in a position where he has to defend all the time

so that, I simply don't understand all the hullabaloo about why he resigned.

obviously, he had about 5% chances to save the game.

I disagree.
Maybe 5% chances to save the game against the strong programs of today but I fully expect Deeper blue of that time not to find Qd7+ after
Ra6 Qe3 Qxd6 Re8 and to play h4 like most weak engines do even at depth 20.

[D]4r3/5kp1/R2Q1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 1 3

SOS 5.1 for Arena:
1/9 00:00 168 3k +4.08 3.Bf3
2/9 00:00 4k 63k +3.11 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3
3/10 00:00 4k 52k +3.11 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3
4/17 00:00 5k 70k +3.13 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3 5.Kg1
4/17 00:00 5k 71k +3.34 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3 5.Kg1
4/17 00:00 6k 74k +3.62 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3 5.Bh5+
5/19 00:00 13k 841k +3.48 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8
6/19 00:00 18k 1,127k +3.49 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Qe6+
7/21 00:00 35k 737k +3.50 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 38k 598k +3.62 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 40k 636k +3.73 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 44k 691k +3.84 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 49k 634k +3.96 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/23 00:00 54k 696k +4.09 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
8/24 00:00 123k 714k +3.97 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Kg3 Qxf5 6.Ra7+ Kg8 7.Kh2 Kh7 8.Bg4
9/25 00:00 221k 746k +3.88 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Kg8 7.Qc6 Qb1+ 8.Bf1
10/27 00:00 306k 753k +3.88 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Kg8 7.Qc6 Qb1+ 8.Bf1
10/27 00:00 370k 788k +3.99 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Kg8 7.Qc6 Qb1+ 8.Bf1
11/30 00:00 645k 842k +4.06 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Qg5 7.Ra7+ Kg8 8.Qd7 Rf8 9.d6 Qe3+ 10.Kh1
12/33 00:01 1,219k 951k +4.10 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Kg8 8.Qd7 Qf4+ 9.Kg1
13/40 00:07 12,656k 1,663k +0.93 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Ke1 Qc1+ 7.Bd1 Qxc3+ 8.Kf1 Qc1 9.Ra7+ Kg8 10.Ke2 c3
14/40 00:08 13,164k 1,645k +0.93 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Ke1 Qc1+ 7.Bd1 Qxc3+ 8.Kf1 Qc1 9.Ra7+ Kg8 10.Ke2 c3 11.Ra2
14/40 00:08 13,627k 1,633k +1.04 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Ke1 Qc1+ 7.Bd1 Qxc3+ 8.Kf1 Qc1 9.Ra7+ Kg8 10.Ke2 c3 11.Ra2
15/40 00:16 24,100k 1,483k +0.87 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:18 27,508k 1,456k +0.87 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:19 28,797k 1,445k +0.88 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:24 35,013k 1,433k +0.99 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:27 39,369k 1,446k +1.10 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:29 43,459k 1,462k +1.21 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:32 47,697k 1,475k +1.32 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:34 51,654k 1,488k +1.43 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:37 56,461k 1,489k +1.54 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:40 61,022k 1,492k +1.65 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:42 64,386k 1,502k +1.76 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:44 66,750k 1,488k +1.78 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/43 00:47 71,082k 1,494k +1.89 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/43 00:51 76,294k 1,493k +2.00 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/43 00:54 81,276k 1,497k +2.11 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
17/43 01:08 98,234k 1,433k +2.15 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:13 103,527k 1,418k +2.16 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:14 105,365k 1,414k +2.17 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:15 107,176k 1,411k +2.18 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:24 119,024k 1,412k +2.29 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:28 125,507k 1,413k +2.35 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:31 129,091k 1,411k +2.37 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:33 131,227k 1,410k +2.38 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
18/49 02:32 210,998k 1,386k +2.23 3.h4 h5 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Be2 Qf4+ 7.Kg1 Qe3+ 8.Kh2 Qf4+ 9.Kh3 Qxf5+ 10.Kh2 Qf4+ 11.Kg1 Qc1+ 12.Kf2 Qf4+ 13.Bf3 Qxh4+ 14.g3 Qh2+ 15.Bg2 h4 16.Qd7+ Re7 17.Qg4 hxg3+ 18.Qxg3
19/52 03:28 279,284k 1,336k +2.22 3.h4 h5 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Be2 Qf4+ 7.Kg1 Qe3+ 8.Kh2 Qf4+ 9.Kh1 Qc1+ 10.Kh2 Qf4+
20/52 04:45 367,541k 1,285k +2.22 3.h4 h5 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Be2 Qf4+ 7.Kg1 Qe3+ 8.Kh2 Qf4+ 9.Kh3 Qxf5+ 10.Kh2 Qf4+ 11.Kg1 Qc1+ 12.Kf2 Qf4+ 13.Bf3 Qxh4+ 14.g3 Qh2+ 15.Bg2 h4 16.Qd7+ Re7 17.Qg4 hxg3+ 18.Qxg3 Qh6 19.Ra8

[peter]

Hi Dann!

The final position of a pv is pretty well useless.
It contains crap like quiescent search nodes.

Not only the final moves of output- lines contain crap, but in this one "already" 19th (counted from new start) reaches a drawn 7some position

[Rodolfo Leoni]

besides, it is really nasty when people call you troll 10 times per day?

I wonder why!

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

so, chess base article is wrong: Ra6 was not a mistake, just not the best continuation.

dev-SF-McB agrees with you...

A very deep search by the latest asmFish followed by back-tracking through every move to the initial position suggests that Lyudmil and dev-SF-McB have reached the wrong conclusion. It seems that 45. Ra6 is indeed a blunder that converts a won position for White into a draw (though not an immediate one).

Here's what asmFish shows from the position after 45. Ra6 Qe3
[d] 1r6/5kp1/R1Qb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 15 46

Code: Select all

0.00 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qc7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Qxb5 Rd8 53. Qb7+ Kg8 54. Qe7 Qxd6 55. Qxd6 Rxd6 56. Ra8+ Kf7 57. Rc8 Rd1+ 58. Kh2 Ke7 59. Rxc4 Rf1 60. b5 Rb1 61. Rc7+ Kd6 62. Rxg7 Rxb5 63. Rf7 e4 64. Rxf6+ Ke5 65. Rf7 Rc5 66. Rf8 Rxc3 67. f6 Ke6 68. f7 Kf6 69. Re8 Kxf7 70. Rxe4 Kf6 71. Rf4+ Kg6 72. Rf3 Rc2 73. Rg3+ Kh6 74. Rd3 Kg5 75. Rd5+ Kg6 76. Kg3 h4+ 77. Kh2 Rc1 78. Rd6+ Kf5 79. Rd7 Kg5 80. Rf7 Rc4 81. Rf8 Rb4 82. Rd8 Rf4 83. Rd5+ Kf6 84. Rc5 Rb4 85. Kg1 Kg6 (depth 69, 11:57:32)

well it was dev-SF-McB vs K11.2 - dev-Sf-MCB vs dev-SF-McB ended in a draw in second game...so K11.2 might have misplayed it

whatever the legitimate conclusion of that game, with perfect play, and we will probably know this for certain in some 20-30 years or so, Kasparov resigning the game was not something unnatural, for:

1) he did not see the very engine like Re8 reply after Qd6 capture, and that is why he resigned, he thought he just loses a piece
2) as Mike's game also comes to show, white has the advantage and anything can happen in a real-life game, so why just give up on your edge?
3) it is obvious only one side can lose, and that is black
4) most likely, Kasparov would have lost the game one way or another, had he continued: too many engine-like moves to find in a position where he has to defend all the time

so that, I simply don't understand all the hullabaloo about why he resigned.

obviously, he had about 5% chances to save the game.

I disagree.
Maybe 5% chances to save the game against the strong programs of today but I fully expect Deeper blue of that time not to find Qd7+ after
Ra6 Qe3 Qxd6 Re8 and to play h4 like most weak engines do even at depth 20.

[D]4r3/5kp1/R2Q1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P1q2P/6P1/5K2 w - - 1 3

SOS 5.1 for Arena:
1/9 00:00 168 3k +4.08 3.Bf3
2/9 00:00 4k 63k +3.11 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3
3/10 00:00 4k 52k +3.11 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3
4/17 00:00 5k 70k +3.13 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3 5.Kg1
4/17 00:00 5k 71k +3.34 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3 5.Kg1
4/17 00:00 6k 74k +3.62 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qxc3 5.Bh5+
5/19 00:00 13k 841k +3.48 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8
6/19 00:00 18k 1,127k +3.49 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Qe6+
7/21 00:00 35k 737k +3.50 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 38k 598k +3.62 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 40k 636k +3.73 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 44k 691k +3.84 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/21 00:00 49k 634k +3.96 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
7/23 00:00 54k 696k +4.09 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Kg8 5.Qd7 Rf8 6.Ra7
8/24 00:00 123k 714k +3.97 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Kg3 Qxf5 6.Ra7+ Kg8 7.Kh2 Kh7 8.Bg4
9/25 00:00 221k 746k +3.88 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Kg8 7.Qc6 Qb1+ 8.Bf1
10/27 00:00 306k 753k +3.88 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Kg8 7.Qc6 Qb1+ 8.Bf1
10/27 00:00 370k 788k +3.99 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Kg8 7.Qc6 Qb1+ 8.Bf1
11/30 00:00 645k 842k +4.06 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qc2+ 5.Be2 Qxf5+ 6.Kg1 Qg5 7.Ra7+ Kg8 8.Qd7 Rf8 9.d6 Qe3+ 10.Kh1
12/33 00:01 1,219k 951k +4.10 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Kg8 8.Qd7 Qf4+ 9.Kg1
13/40 00:07 12,656k 1,663k +0.93 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Ke1 Qc1+ 7.Bd1 Qxc3+ 8.Kf1 Qc1 9.Ra7+ Kg8 10.Ke2 c3
14/40 00:08 13,164k 1,645k +0.93 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Ke1 Qc1+ 7.Bd1 Qxc3+ 8.Kf1 Qc1 9.Ra7+ Kg8 10.Ke2 c3 11.Ra2
14/40 00:08 13,627k 1,633k +1.04 3.Bf3 Qc1+ 4.Kf2 Qd2+ 5.Be2 Qf4+ 6.Ke1 Qc1+ 7.Bd1 Qxc3+ 8.Kf1 Qc1 9.Ra7+ Kg8 10.Ke2 c3 11.Ra2
15/40 00:16 24,100k 1,483k +0.87 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:18 27,508k 1,456k +0.87 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:19 28,797k 1,445k +0.88 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:24 35,013k 1,433k +0.99 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:27 39,369k 1,446k +1.10 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:29 43,459k 1,462k +1.21 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:32 47,697k 1,475k +1.32 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:34 51,654k 1,488k +1.43 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:37 56,461k 1,489k +1.54 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:40 61,022k 1,492k +1.65 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:42 64,386k 1,502k +1.76 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/42 00:44 66,750k 1,488k +1.78 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/43 00:47 71,082k 1,494k +1.89 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/43 00:51 76,294k 1,493k +2.00 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
16/43 00:54 81,276k 1,497k +2.11 3.h4 Qxe4 4.Ra7+ Kg8 5.Qd7 Qd3+ 6.Kg1 Qe3+ 7.Kh2 Qf4+ 8.Kh3 Qe3+ 9.g3
17/43 01:08 98,234k 1,433k +2.15 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:13 103,527k 1,418k +2.16 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:14 105,365k 1,414k +2.17 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:15 107,176k 1,411k +2.18 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:24 119,024k 1,412k +2.29 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:28 125,507k 1,413k +2.35 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:31 129,091k 1,411k +2.37 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
17/43 01:33 131,227k 1,410k +2.38 3.h4 Re7 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Kg3 Qe1+ 7.Kh3 Qh1+ 8.Kg4 e4 9.Ra8 exf3 10.Qd8 Qxg2+ 11.Kh5 g6+ 12.Kxh6 gxf5 13.Qf8+
18/49 02:32 210,998k 1,386k +2.23 3.h4 h5 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Be2 Qf4+ 7.Kg1 Qe3+ 8.Kh2 Qf4+ 9.Kh3 Qxf5+ 10.Kh2 Qf4+ 11.Kg1 Qc1+ 12.Kf2 Qf4+ 13.Bf3 Qxh4+ 14.g3 Qh2+ 15.Bg2 h4 16.Qd7+ Re7 17.Qg4 hxg3+ 18.Qxg3
19/52 03:28 279,284k 1,336k +2.22 3.h4 h5 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Be2 Qf4+ 7.Kg1 Qe3+ 8.Kh2 Qf4+ 9.Kh1 Qc1+ 10.Kh2 Qf4+
20/52 04:45 367,541k 1,285k +2.22 3.h4 h5 4.Bf3 Qc1+ 5.Kf2 Qd2+ 6.Be2 Qf4+ 7.Kg1 Qe3+ 8.Kh2 Qf4+ 9.Kh3 Qxf5+ 10.Kh2 Qf4+ 11.Kg1 Qc1+ 12.Kf2 Qf4+ 13.Bf3 Qxh4+ 14.g3 Qh2+ 15.Bg2 h4 16.Qd7+ Re7 17.Qg4 hxg3+ 18.Qxg3 Qh6 19.Ra8

but it is still winning(+222cps score)

who knows, Deep Blue would have blundered with h4, and then maybe Kasparov would have blundered mate on the very next move.

a game of blunders, why did they even follow it?

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

besides, it is really nasty when people call you troll 10 times per day?

I wonder why!

lack of understanding?
simple-mindedness?
heavy-wordedness?

you think your stupid simplistic endgame position you just posted is worth something?

if there was a trollish post, that was yours, definitely.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Hi Dann!

The final position of a pv is pretty well useless.
It contains crap like quiescent search nodes.

Not only the final moves of output- lines contain crap, but in this one "already" 19th (counted from new start) reaches a drawn 7some position

my nemesis Peter at last posting again.

where have you gone, I miss you so much?

anyway, one opponent more or less, does not matter.

so many possible lines here, so many possible lines, leaving queens on board and not going for a simple drawn rook endgame should give white quite nice winning prospects.

anyway, I am out of analysing this position for the time being, not possible for me to analyse 100 positions at the same time.