A french defence game

[zullil]

where have you gone Louis?

I thought you were on a visit to another galaxy.

Qc1:

[d]5qrr/pk4p1/1pn1p1np/3pPpP1/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P1BBNR/2Q3RK b - - 0 1

I was traveling, and the computer was doing some non-chess work!

28... Nb8
[D] 1n3qrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpP1/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P1BBNR/2Q3RK w - - 9 29

Code: Select all

-0.42 28... Nb8 29. Bf3 Na6 30. h4 Ne7 31. Ne3 Kc8 32. Qb1 Qe8 33. Rh3 Kb8 34. Rh2 Nc7 35. Qb4 hxg5 36. Rxg5 Nc6 37. Qb2 Rh7 38. Kg2 Ne7 39. Qb4 g6 40. Rh1 Qb5 41. Rb1 Rgh8 42. Ra1 Qa6 43. Qb2 Rh6 44. Rg1 Nb5 45. Qb4 R6h7 46. Rb1 Nc6 47. Qb2 Rh6 48. Kh3 R8h7 49. Rbg1 Ne7 50. Kg2 Qa5 51. Be1 Nc7 52. Qb4 Qxb4 (depth 48, 0:17:25)

-0.34 28... Kc8 29. h4 Nge7 30. Qb2 Qe8 31. Re1 g6 32. Kg1 Nb8 33. Rb1 Na6 34. Ne1 Kb8 35. gxh6 Rxh6 36. Rg2 Nc7 37. Nf3 Rgh8 38. Ng5 Nc6 39. Bf3 Na6 40. Rh2 Rg8 41. Qc1 Nc7 42. Be1 Qf8 43. Bg3 Kb7 44. Bf2 Qe8 45. Qb2 Rhh8 46. Rg2 Na6 47. Kh2 Rh6 48. Nh3 Nc7 49. Ng5 Rgh8 50. Bg3 Qe7 51. Bf2 Nb5 52. Rgg1 (depth 48, 0:17:25)

-0.34 28... Rh7 29. h4 Nge7 30. Ne1 Rhh8 31. Qb2 Qe8 32. Nf3 Rh7 33. Qc1 Nb8 34. Rhg2 hxg5 35. Nxg5 Rh6 36. Rh2 Nbc6 37. Bf3 Nd8 38. Kg2 Rhh8 39. Qb2 Nec6 40. Kg3 Rh6 41. Kg2 Nb8 42. Qb4 Kc8 43. Qb2 Rhh8 44. Rhh1 Ndc6 45. Be3 Kb7 46. Rb1 Rh6 47. Bf2 Rgh8 48. Kf1 Na6 49. Qa2 Nc7 50. Kg2 Nb5 51. Qb2 g6 52. Rhg1 Rxh4 53. Bxh4 Rxh4 54. Kg3 (depth 48, 0:17:25)

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

where have you gone Louis?

I thought you were on a visit to another galaxy.

Qc1:

[d]5qrr/pk4p1/1pn1p1np/3pPpP1/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P1BBNR/2Q3RK b - - 0 1

I was traveling, and the computer was doing some non-chess work!

28... Nb8
[D] 1n3qrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpP1/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P1BBNR/2Q3RK w - - 9 29

Code: Select all

-0.42 28... Nb8 29. Bf3 Na6 30. h4 Ne7 31. Ne3 Kc8 32. Qb1 Qe8 33. Rh3 Kb8 34. Rh2 Nc7 35. Qb4 hxg5 36. Rxg5 Nc6 37. Qb2 Rh7 38. Kg2 Ne7 39. Qb4 g6 40. Rh1 Qb5 41. Rb1 Rgh8 42. Ra1 Qa6 43. Qb2 Rh6 44. Rg1 Nb5 45. Qb4 R6h7 46. Rb1 Nc6 47. Qb2 Rh6 48. Kh3 R8h7 49. Rbg1 Ne7 50. Kg2 Qa5 51. Be1 Nc7 52. Qb4 Qxb4 (depth 48, 0:17:25)

-0.34 28... Kc8 29. h4 Nge7 30. Qb2 Qe8 31. Re1 g6 32. Kg1 Nb8 33. Rb1 Na6 34. Ne1 Kb8 35. gxh6 Rxh6 36. Rg2 Nc7 37. Nf3 Rgh8 38. Ng5 Nc6 39. Bf3 Na6 40. Rh2 Rg8 41. Qc1 Nc7 42. Be1 Qf8 43. Bg3 Kb7 44. Bf2 Qe8 45. Qb2 Rhh8 46. Rg2 Na6 47. Kh2 Rh6 48. Nh3 Nc7 49. Ng5 Rgh8 50. Bg3 Qe7 51. Bf2 Nb5 52. Rgg1 (depth 48, 0:17:25)

-0.34 28... Rh7 29. h4 Nge7 30. Ne1 Rhh8 31. Qb2 Qe8 32. Nf3 Rh7 33. Qc1 Nb8 34. Rhg2 hxg5 35. Nxg5 Rh6 36. Rh2 Nbc6 37. Bf3 Nd8 38. Kg2 Rhh8 39. Qb2 Nec6 40. Kg3 Rh6 41. Kg2 Nb8 42. Qb4 Kc8 43. Qb2 Rhh8 44. Rhh1 Ndc6 45. Be3 Kb7 46. Rb1 Rh6 47. Bf2 Rgh8 48. Kf1 Na6 49. Qa2 Nc7 50. Kg2 Nb5 51. Qb2 g6 52. Rhg1 Rxh4 53. Bxh4 Rxh4 54. Kg3 (depth 48, 0:17:25)

it is good to join the traveller's community.

Bh5:

[d]1n3qrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpPB/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P2BNR/2Q3RK b - - 0 1

[zullil]

it is good to join the traveller's community.

Bh5:

[d]1n3qrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpPB/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P2BNR/2Q3RK b - - 0 1

29... Be8
[D] 1n2bqrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpPB/2pP1P2/P1P4P/2P2BNR/2Q3RK w - - 11 30

Code: Select all

-0.42 29... Be8 30. Bf3 Ne7 31. h4 Na6 32. Be1 Rh7 33. Bf2 Kb8 34. Qb2 Ba4 35. Ne3 Rhh8 36. Ng2 Qe8 37. Ne3 Nc7 38. Qb4 hxg5 39. Rxg5 g6 40. Kg2 Nc6 41. Qb2 Qc8 42. Rh1 Nb5 43. Rb1 Qa6 44. Rg1 Ne7 45. Ra1 Rh7 46. Kg1 Qc8 47. Kg2 Rgh8 48. Rb1 Qd7 49. Kg1 Qe8 50. Kg2 Nc7 51. Kf1 Rxh4 52. Bxh4 (depth 46, 0:10:50)

-0.11 29... Ne7 30. g6 Nec6 31. Ne3 Na6 32. Bh4 Nc7 33. Qa1 Qc8 34. Bf3 Kb8 35. Re2 Re8 36. Reg2 Qa6 37. Bh5 Rhg8 38. Rb1 Nb5 39. Kg1 Qc8 40. Be1 Rh8 41. Bh4 Qa6 42. Qb2 Rc8 43. Qa1 Nc7 44. Qb2 Qa5 45. Be1 Rce8 46. h4 Bb5 47. Bf3 Ba6 48. h5 Rc8 49. Ra1 Qa4 50. Bh4 Rhe8 51. Rb1 Rf8 52. Rh2 Nb5 53. Bg3 Rc7 (depth 46, 0:10:50)

+2.81 29... Nxe5 30. fxe5 g6 31. Bf3 h5 32. Nf4 Qf7 33. h4 Rc8 34. Rhg2 Rcg8 35. Be3 Nc6 36. Qb2 Rc8 37. Rb1 Rhd8 38. Kg1 Kb8 39. Rh2 Rd7 40. Rf2 Rdd8 41. Qc1 Rc7 42. Qd2 Na5 43. Rff1 Rg8 44. Bg2 Bc6 45. Bh3 Bb7 46. Qc1 Rd8 47. Bg2 Rdd7 48. Qd2 Qe8 49. Qe2 Bc6 50. Qf2 Qf7 51. Qe1 Ba4 (depth 45, 0:10:50)

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

it is good to join the traveller's community.

Bh5:

[d]1n3qrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpPB/b1pP1P2/P1P4P/2P2BNR/2Q3RK b - - 0 1

29... Be8
[D] 1n2bqrr/pk4p1/1p2p1np/3pPpPB/2pP1P2/P1P4P/2P2BNR/2Q3RK w - - 11 30

Code: Select all

-0.42 29... Be8 30. Bf3 Ne7 31. h4 Na6 32. Be1 Rh7 33. Bf2 Kb8 34. Qb2 Ba4 35. Ne3 Rhh8 36. Ng2 Qe8 37. Ne3 Nc7 38. Qb4 hxg5 39. Rxg5 g6 40. Kg2 Nc6 41. Qb2 Qc8 42. Rh1 Nb5 43. Rb1 Qa6 44. Rg1 Ne7 45. Ra1 Rh7 46. Kg1 Qc8 47. Kg2 Rgh8 48. Rb1 Qd7 49. Kg1 Qe8 50. Kg2 Nc7 51. Kf1 Rxh4 52. Bxh4 (depth 46, 0:10:50)

-0.11 29... Ne7 30. g6 Nec6 31. Ne3 Na6 32. Bh4 Nc7 33. Qa1 Qc8 34. Bf3 Kb8 35. Re2 Re8 36. Reg2 Qa6 37. Bh5 Rhg8 38. Rb1 Nb5 39. Kg1 Qc8 40. Be1 Rh8 41. Bh4 Qa6 42. Qb2 Rc8 43. Qa1 Nc7 44. Qb2 Qa5 45. Be1 Rce8 46. h4 Bb5 47. Bf3 Ba6 48. h5 Rc8 49. Ra1 Qa4 50. Bh4 Rhe8 51. Rb1 Rf8 52. Rh2 Nb5 53. Bg3 Rc7 (depth 46, 0:10:50)

+2.81 29... Nxe5 30. fxe5 g6 31. Bf3 h5 32. Nf4 Qf7 33. h4 Rc8 34. Rhg2 Rcg8 35. Be3 Nc6 36. Qb2 Rc8 37. Rb1 Rhd8 38. Kg1 Kb8 39. Rh2 Rd7 40. Rf2 Rdd8 41. Qc1 Rc7 42. Qd2 Na5 43. Rff1 Rg8 44. Bg2 Bc6 45. Bh3 Bb7 46. Qc1 Rd8 47. Bg2 Rdd7 48. Qd2 Qe8 49. Qe2 Bc6 50. Qf2 Qf7 51. Qe1 Ba4 (depth 45, 0:10:50)

in your main line, 32.Ne3 instead of Be1:

[d]4bqrr/pk2n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/2Q3RK b - - 0 4

if you want, you might also calculate single moves after my Bf3.

[zullil]

in your main line, 32.Ne3 instead of Be1:

[d]4bqrr/pk2n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/2Q3RK b - - 0 4

if you want, you might also calculate single moves after my Bf3.

I had asmFish review each move in its line. No changes, so we're now at 32... Kb8.
[D] 1k2bqrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/2Q3RK w - - 3 33

Code: Select all

-0.42 32... Kb8 33. Qa1 Ba4 34. Qc1 Nc7 35. Qb2 hxg5 36. Rxg5 g6 37. Kg2 Rh7 38. Rh3 Qe8 39. Rh1 Qb5 40. Qb4 Re8 41. Qb1 Qa6 42. Qb4 Rd8 43. Qb2 Rg8 44. Ra1 Qb5 45. Rb1 Qa5 46. Qb4 Qa6 47. Qb2 Rh6 48. Ra1 Rhh8 49. Rb1 Nb5 50. Kg1 Rg7 51. Qb4 Nc7 52. Ra1 Nc6 53. Qb2 Rhh7 54. Kg2 Qc8 55. Rh1 Bb5 56. Rb1 (depth 47, 0:25:02)

-0.05 32... hxg5 33. fxg5 Bh5 34. Qd1 Bxf3+ 35. Qxf3 Nc6 36. Ra1 g6 37. Ng2 Nc7 38. Nf4 Qf7 39. a4 Qe8 40. Kg2 Rg7 41. Qe3 Kb8 42. Rhh1 Qg8 43. Qc1 Na5 44. Rb1 Rgh7 45. Qa3 Qe8 46. Rh2 Ka8 47. Qb2 Rg7 48. Qa3 Rd7 49. Rbh1 Rdh7 50. Ra1 Nc6 51. Rhh1 Qf7 52. Rab1 Na5 53. Qd6 Qe8 54. Qa3 Kb7 55. Qb2 Rg8 56. Qb4 Ka8 57. Qa3 Rgg7 58. Rhf1 (depth 47, 0:25:02)

-0.08 32... Kc8 33. a4 (depth 46, 0:25:02)

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

in your main line, 32.Ne3 instead of Be1:

[d]4bqrr/pk2n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/2Q3RK b - - 0 4

if you want, you might also calculate single moves after my Bf3.

I had asmFish review each move in its line. No changes, so we're now at 32... Kb8.
[D] 1k2bqrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/2Q3RK w - - 3 33

Code: Select all

-0.42 32... Kb8 33. Qa1 Ba4 34. Qc1 Nc7 35. Qb2 hxg5 36. Rxg5 g6 37. Kg2 Rh7 38. Rh3 Qe8 39. Rh1 Qb5 40. Qb4 Re8 41. Qb1 Qa6 42. Qb4 Rd8 43. Qb2 Rg8 44. Ra1 Qb5 45. Rb1 Qa5 46. Qb4 Qa6 47. Qb2 Rh6 48. Ra1 Rhh8 49. Rb1 Nb5 50. Kg1 Rg7 51. Qb4 Nc7 52. Ra1 Nc6 53. Qb2 Rhh7 54. Kg2 Qc8 55. Rh1 Bb5 56. Rb1 (depth 47, 0:25:02)

-0.05 32... hxg5 33. fxg5 Bh5 34. Qd1 Bxf3+ 35. Qxf3 Nc6 36. Ra1 g6 37. Ng2 Nc7 38. Nf4 Qf7 39. a4 Qe8 40. Kg2 Rg7 41. Qe3 Kb8 42. Rhh1 Qg8 43. Qc1 Na5 44. Rb1 Rgh7 45. Qa3 Qe8 46. Rh2 Ka8 47. Qb2 Rg7 48. Qa3 Rd7 49. Rbh1 Rdh7 50. Ra1 Nc6 51. Rhh1 Qf7 52. Rab1 Na5 53. Qd6 Qe8 54. Qa3 Kb7 55. Qb2 Rg8 56. Qb4 Ka8 57. Qa3 Rgg7 58. Rhf1 (depth 47, 0:25:02)

-0.08 32... Kc8 33. a4 (depth 46, 0:25:02)

37. Rhg2 instead of Kg2:

[d]1k3qrr/p1n1n3/1p2p1p1/3pPpR1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/1QP2BR1/7K b - - 0 9

white has clear advantage.
I don't know why SF and Komodo would think black is a bit better.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

actually, 36.Fg5 is even stronger:

[d]1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pPpP1/b1pP3P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK b - - 0 8

white should be winning that.

feel free to compute any of those lines, or play move by move, with my first being Qa1.

[Werewolf]

If we've been miscommunicating, I apologize, but I'm not concerned if the Winawer is trappy, sharp or dangerous to play for black - only if it is lost.

For over-the-board chess though, this is quite important. It's highly unlikely something as well-known and main line as the French Winawer will be LOST. But if 90% of lines lead to a black loss, that's a big deal for human chess.

At the moment, I just can't see black is in any trouble.

human databases give 41 vs 30 % white wins, that should tell something.

this is well beyond the average opening success for white, counting Sicilians, Ruy Lopez and any other system around.

play short castle, and I will show you how white wins.

PS. sorry that I can not pay more attention to you, but am simply currently doing too many distracting things.

Next weekend I have a tournament and my opponents will be in the 2100 - 2400 elo range. Several of them are French defence players.

It would be great if you could suggest the plans for white. We can fine-tune the moves later to see the final & correct evaluation, but what I want is to be able to bring to the board something unusual with a plan.

At the moment that line we looked at:


In the line: 7.f4 Qa5 8.Bd2 (8.Nf3!? cd) cd 9.cd Qa4 10.Nf3 b6 11.c3 Qd1 12.Kd1 (or Rd1) Ba6!

- And I'd probably prefer black -


but this probably wouldn't occur over the board.

What's the general plan if black castles short?

[zullil]

actually, 36.Fg5 is even stronger:

[d]1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pPpP1/b1pP3P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK b - - 0 8

white should be winning that.

feel free to compute any of those lines, or play move by move, with my first being Qa1.

OK, I hope I've played as you intended. After 36. fxg5, asmFish plays 36... f4.
[D] 1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pP1P1/b1pP1p1P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK w - - 0 37

Code: Select all

-0.59 36... f4 37. Ng2 Qf5 38. h5 Qxg5 39. Bh4 Nf5 40. Ne1 Qh6 41. Bg5 Qh7 42. Bxf4 Rf8 43. Bg5 Kb7 44. Rgg2 Rf7 45. Kg1 Rhf8 46. Rh3 Nh6 47. Be3 a5 48. Bg5 Nf5 49. Rgh2 Ne7 50. Rf2 Ng8 51. Rg3 Ka7 52. Be3 Nh6 53. Bg5 Nb5 54. Qa1 Rf5 55. Qb2 Kb7 56. Qa1 Qh8 57. Be3 R5f7 58. Bd2 Nc7 59. Qc1 Qh7 60. Rh3 Ng8 61. Bg5 Ka7 62. Ng2 (depth 44, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... g6 37. Ng2 Rg7 38. Bg3 Qf7 39. Nf4 Qg8 40. Qb4 Be8 41. Rf1 Bc6 42. Ra1 Be8 43. Qd6 Nc6 44. Kg1 Kb7 45. Rb1 Rd7 46. Qc5 Na6 47. Qb5 Nc7 48. Qb2 Kb8 49. Rf1 Rdh7 50. a4 Bd7 51. Qa3 Na5 52. Ra1 Bc6 53. Rb1 Be8 54. Qb4 Ka8 55. Qa3 Kb8 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... Be8 37. Ng2 Rh7 38. Rf1 Rgh8 39. Qb4 g6 40. Nf4 Qg8 41. Kg1 Rg7 42. a4 Nc6 43. Qb2 Na5 44. Qb4 Bc6 45. Rb1 Kc8 46. Bg3 Bd7 47. Rf1 Qd8 48. Rg2 Kb8 49. Rh2 Bc6 50. Ra1 Be8 51. Qd6 Bd7 52. Qa3 Bc6 53. Qb4 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

actually, 36.Fg5 is even stronger:

[d]1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pPpP1/b1pP3P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK b - - 0 8

white should be winning that.

feel free to compute any of those lines, or play move by move, with my first being Qa1.

OK, I hope I've played as you intended. After 36. fxg5, asmFish plays 36... f4.
[D] 1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pP1P1/b1pP1p1P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK w - - 0 37

Code: Select all

-0.59 36... f4 37. Ng2 Qf5 38. h5 Qxg5 39. Bh4 Nf5 40. Ne1 Qh6 41. Bg5 Qh7 42. Bxf4 Rf8 43. Bg5 Kb7 44. Rgg2 Rf7 45. Kg1 Rhf8 46. Rh3 Nh6 47. Be3 a5 48. Bg5 Nf5 49. Rgh2 Ne7 50. Rf2 Ng8 51. Rg3 Ka7 52. Be3 Nh6 53. Bg5 Nb5 54. Qa1 Rf5 55. Qb2 Kb7 56. Qa1 Qh8 57. Be3 R5f7 58. Bd2 Nc7 59. Qc1 Qh7 60. Rh3 Ng8 61. Bg5 Ka7 62. Ng2 (depth 44, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... g6 37. Ng2 Rg7 38. Bg3 Qf7 39. Nf4 Qg8 40. Qb4 Be8 41. Rf1 Bc6 42. Ra1 Be8 43. Qd6 Nc6 44. Kg1 Kb7 45. Rb1 Rd7 46. Qc5 Na6 47. Qb5 Nc7 48. Qb2 Kb8 49. Rf1 Rdh7 50. a4 Bd7 51. Qa3 Na5 52. Ra1 Bc6 53. Rb1 Be8 54. Qb4 Ka8 55. Qa3 Kb8 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... Be8 37. Ng2 Rh7 38. Rf1 Rgh8 39. Qb4 g6 40. Nf4 Qg8 41. Kg1 Rg7 42. a4 Nc6 43. Qb2 Na5 44. Qb4 Bc6 45. Rb1 Kc8 46. Bg3 Bd7 47. Rf1 Qd8 48. Rg2 Kb8 49. Rh2 Bc6 50. Ra1 Be8 51. Qd6 Bd7 52. Qa3 Bc6 53. Qb4 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

this is too tactical.

initially I thought it is easily won for white, based on purely positional considerations, but maybe I have missed some extravagant tactics.

in your line, I deviate on move 44 with Qc1 instead of Rgg2:

[d]5r1r/pkn3pq/1p2p3/3pPnBP/b1pP4/P1P2B2/2P4R/2Q1N1RK b - - 0 8

you might want to give it a good think here, next move by me will be tomorrow or in a couple of hours.

white definitely still has the advantage, I gradually start getting nervous by those repetitive and scandalous SF scores favouring black, but I am not certain if white wins.