A french defence game

[zullil]

OK, I hope I've played as you intended. After 36. fxg5, asmFish plays 36... f4.
[D] 1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pP1P1/b1pP1p1P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK w - - 0 37

Code: Select all

-0.59 36... f4 37. Ng2 Qf5 38. h5 Qxg5 39. Bh4 Nf5 40. Ne1 Qh6 41. Bg5 Qh7 42. Bxf4 Rf8 43. Bg5 Kb7 44. Rgg2 Rf7 45. Kg1 Rhf8 46. Rh3 Nh6 47. Be3 a5 48. Bg5 Nf5 49. Rgh2 Ne7 50. Rf2 Ng8 51. Rg3 Ka7 52. Be3 Nh6 53. Bg5 Nb5 54. Qa1 Rf5 55. Qb2 Kb7 56. Qa1 Qh8 57. Be3 R5f7 58. Bd2 Nc7 59. Qc1 Qh7 60. Rh3 Ng8 61. Bg5 Ka7 62. Ng2 (depth 44, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... g6 37. Ng2 Rg7 38. Bg3 Qf7 39. Nf4 Qg8 40. Qb4 Be8 41. Rf1 Bc6 42. Ra1 Be8 43. Qd6 Nc6 44. Kg1 Kb7 45. Rb1 Rd7 46. Qc5 Na6 47. Qb5 Nc7 48. Qb2 Kb8 49. Rf1 Rdh7 50. a4 Bd7 51. Qa3 Na5 52. Ra1 Bc6 53. Rb1 Be8 54. Qb4 Ka8 55. Qa3 Kb8 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... Be8 37. Ng2 Rh7 38. Rf1 Rgh8 39. Qb4 g6 40. Nf4 Qg8 41. Kg1 Rg7 42. a4 Nc6 43. Qb2 Na5 44. Qb4 Bc6 45. Rb1 Kc8 46. Bg3 Bd7 47. Rf1 Qd8 48. Rg2 Kb8 49. Rh2 Bc6 50. Ra1 Be8 51. Qd6 Bd7 52. Qa3 Bc6 53. Qb4 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

this is too tactical.

initially I thought it is easily won for white, based on purely positional considerations, but maybe I have missed some extravagant tactics.

in your line, I deviate on move 44 with Qc1 instead of Rgg2:

[d]5r1r/pkn3pq/1p2p3/3pPnBP/b1pP4/P1P2B2/2P4R/2Q1N1RK b - - 0 8

you might want to give it a good think here, next move by me will be tomorrow or in a couple of hours.

white definitely still has the advantage, I gradually start getting nervous by those repetitive and scandalous SF scores favouring black, but I am not certain if white wins.

Actually, asmFish would deviate from its line too. Instead of 40... Qh6, it prefers 40... Qxh4.
[D] 1k4rr/p1n3p1/1p2p3/3pPn1P/b1pP1p1q/P1P2B2/1QP4R/4N1RK w - - 0 41

Code: Select all

-0.62 40... Qxh4 41. Rxh4 Nxh4 42. Rg5 Nxf3 43. Nxf3 Be8 44. Kg2 Bxh5 45. a4 g6 46. Nd2 Kb7 47. Qb1 a6 48. Kf2 a5 49. Qa1 Rg7 50. Qc1 Rf7 51. Rg1 Ka6 52. Qa1 Rg7 53. Rg5 Rd7 54. Qc1 Rf7 55. Rg1 Rg8 56. Rg5 Rb8 57. Qb1 Rh8 58. Qh1 Rfh7 59. Qc1 Ne8 60. Qb2 Ka7 61. Rg1 Rg7 62. Nf3 Bxf3 63. Kxf3 g5 64. Qb5 Re7 65. Rb1 Rb7 66. Kg4 Ng7 67. Qc6 Rh4+ 68. Kxg5 Rh2 69. Kg4 Rg2+ 70. Kf3 Rg3+ 71. Ke2 Rxc3 72. Kd2 Rg3 73. Rf1 c3+ 74. Ke1 (depth 49, 0:35:23)

-0.42 40... Qh6 41. Bg5 Qh7 42. Bxf4 Be8 43. Rgg2 Rf8 44. Bg5 Rf7 45. Rh3 Qg8 46. Be2 Qf8 47. Kg1 Kb7 48. Rgh2 Nb5 49. Bc1 a5 50. Nf3 Qe7 51. Qa1 Bd7 52. Rg2 Nc7 53. Ne1 Qe8 54. Rgh2 Rg8 55. Rg2 Rff8 56. Bg5 Nb5 57. Qb2 Rf7 58. Nf3 Rh8 59. Qa1 Nc7 60. Rgh2 Qc8 61. Qc1 Qf8 62. Bd2 Qe8 63. Bg5 Qb8 64. Rf2 Qf8 65. Bd2 Bc6 66. Rg2 Qe7 67. Bg5 (depth 49, 0:35:23)

+2.44 40... Qxg1+ 41. Kxg1 g5 42. Bxg5 Rxg5+ 43. Kf2 Ne3 44. Qb4 Be8 45. Qe7 Rgg8 46. Ng2 Bxh5 47. Nxf4 Nf5 48. Qd7 Rd8 49. Qc6 Bxf3 50. Rxh8 Rxh8 51. Kxf3 Re8 52. Qd7 Re7 53. Qd8+ Kb7 54. Qf8 Re8 55. Qf7 Re7 56. Qh5 Kc6 57. a4 Ng7 58. Qh4 Rd7 59. Qf6 Nge8 60. Qf8 Ng7 61. Qg8 Re7 62. Kf2 Kb7 63. Qf8 Rd7 64. Kg3 Nf5+ 65. Kf3 Ng7 66. Kf2 Kc6 67. Qg8 Re7 68. Kf3 Rd7 69. Qb8 Rf7 70. Kg4 a6 71. Qc8 Re7 72. Qf8 Rd7 73. Kf3 Kb7 74. Qf6 Nge8 75. Qh6 Rf7 76. Ke2 Ng7 (depth 49, 0:35:23)

Here's the game as it currently stands.
[pgn]
[White "Lyudmil"]
[Black "asmFish"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. f4 b6 8. Bb5+
Bd7 9. Bd3 Ba4 10. Nf3 c4 11. Be2 f5 12. Be3 Qd7 13. Bf2 Nbc6 14. O-O O-O-O 15.
Qd2 h6 16. Be3 Kb7 17. g3 Rdg8 18. Rf2 Rd8 19. Kh1 Rhg8 20. Rg1 Qe8 21. h3 Qh5
22. Rh2 Rgf8 23. g4 Qf7 24. g5 Rh8 25. Bf2 Rdg8 26. Nh4 Qf8 27. Ng2 Ng6 28. Qc1
Nb8 29. Bh5 Be8 30. Bf3 Ne7 31. h4 Na6 32. Ne3 Kb8 33. Qa1 Ba4 34. Qc1 Nc7 35.
Qb2 hxg5 36. fxg5 f4 37. Ng2 Qf5 38. h5 Qxg5 39. Bh4 Nf5 40. Ne1 Qxh4
[/pgn]

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

OK, I hope I've played as you intended. After 36. fxg5, asmFish plays 36... f4.
[D] 1k3qrr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p3/3pP1P1/b1pP1p1P/P1P1NB2/1QP2B1R/6RK w - - 0 37

Code: Select all

-0.59 36... f4 37. Ng2 Qf5 38. h5 Qxg5 39. Bh4 Nf5 40. Ne1 Qh6 41. Bg5 Qh7 42. Bxf4 Rf8 43. Bg5 Kb7 44. Rgg2 Rf7 45. Kg1 Rhf8 46. Rh3 Nh6 47. Be3 a5 48. Bg5 Nf5 49. Rgh2 Ne7 50. Rf2 Ng8 51. Rg3 Ka7 52. Be3 Nh6 53. Bg5 Nb5 54. Qa1 Rf5 55. Qb2 Kb7 56. Qa1 Qh8 57. Be3 R5f7 58. Bd2 Nc7 59. Qc1 Qh7 60. Rh3 Ng8 61. Bg5 Ka7 62. Ng2 (depth 44, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... g6 37. Ng2 Rg7 38. Bg3 Qf7 39. Nf4 Qg8 40. Qb4 Be8 41. Rf1 Bc6 42. Ra1 Be8 43. Qd6 Nc6 44. Kg1 Kb7 45. Rb1 Rd7 46. Qc5 Na6 47. Qb5 Nc7 48. Qb2 Kb8 49. Rf1 Rdh7 50. a4 Bd7 51. Qa3 Na5 52. Ra1 Bc6 53. Rb1 Be8 54. Qb4 Ka8 55. Qa3 Kb8 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

0.00 36... Be8 37. Ng2 Rh7 38. Rf1 Rgh8 39. Qb4 g6 40. Nf4 Qg8 41. Kg1 Rg7 42. a4 Nc6 43. Qb2 Na5 44. Qb4 Bc6 45. Rb1 Kc8 46. Bg3 Bd7 47. Rf1 Qd8 48. Rg2 Kb8 49. Rh2 Bc6 50. Ra1 Be8 51. Qd6 Bd7 52. Qa3 Bc6 53. Qb4 (depth 43, 0:02:03)

this is too tactical.

initially I thought it is easily won for white, based on purely positional considerations, but maybe I have missed some extravagant tactics.

in your line, I deviate on move 44 with Qc1 instead of Rgg2:

[d]5r1r/pkn3pq/1p2p3/3pPnBP/b1pP4/P1P2B2/2P4R/2Q1N1RK b - - 0 8

you might want to give it a good think here, next move by me will be tomorrow or in a couple of hours.

white definitely still has the advantage, I gradually start getting nervous by those repetitive and scandalous SF scores favouring black, but I am not certain if white wins.

Actually, asmFish would deviate from its line too. Instead of 40... Qh6, it prefers 40... Qxh4.
[D] 1k4rr/p1n3p1/1p2p3/3pPn1P/b1pP1p1q/P1P2B2/1QP4R/4N1RK w - - 0 41

Code: Select all

-0.62 40... Qxh4 41. Rxh4 Nxh4 42. Rg5 Nxf3 43. Nxf3 Be8 44. Kg2 Bxh5 45. a4 g6 46. Nd2 Kb7 47. Qb1 a6 48. Kf2 a5 49. Qa1 Rg7 50. Qc1 Rf7 51. Rg1 Ka6 52. Qa1 Rg7 53. Rg5 Rd7 54. Qc1 Rf7 55. Rg1 Rg8 56. Rg5 Rb8 57. Qb1 Rh8 58. Qh1 Rfh7 59. Qc1 Ne8 60. Qb2 Ka7 61. Rg1 Rg7 62. Nf3 Bxf3 63. Kxf3 g5 64. Qb5 Re7 65. Rb1 Rb7 66. Kg4 Ng7 67. Qc6 Rh4+ 68. Kxg5 Rh2 69. Kg4 Rg2+ 70. Kf3 Rg3+ 71. Ke2 Rxc3 72. Kd2 Rg3 73. Rf1 c3+ 74. Ke1 (depth 49, 0:35:23)

-0.42 40... Qh6 41. Bg5 Qh7 42. Bxf4 Be8 43. Rgg2 Rf8 44. Bg5 Rf7 45. Rh3 Qg8 46. Be2 Qf8 47. Kg1 Kb7 48. Rgh2 Nb5 49. Bc1 a5 50. Nf3 Qe7 51. Qa1 Bd7 52. Rg2 Nc7 53. Ne1 Qe8 54. Rgh2 Rg8 55. Rg2 Rff8 56. Bg5 Nb5 57. Qb2 Rf7 58. Nf3 Rh8 59. Qa1 Nc7 60. Rgh2 Qc8 61. Qc1 Qf8 62. Bd2 Qe8 63. Bg5 Qb8 64. Rf2 Qf8 65. Bd2 Bc6 66. Rg2 Qe7 67. Bg5 (depth 49, 0:35:23)

+2.44 40... Qxg1+ 41. Kxg1 g5 42. Bxg5 Rxg5+ 43. Kf2 Ne3 44. Qb4 Be8 45. Qe7 Rgg8 46. Ng2 Bxh5 47. Nxf4 Nf5 48. Qd7 Rd8 49. Qc6 Bxf3 50. Rxh8 Rxh8 51. Kxf3 Re8 52. Qd7 Re7 53. Qd8+ Kb7 54. Qf8 Re8 55. Qf7 Re7 56. Qh5 Kc6 57. a4 Ng7 58. Qh4 Rd7 59. Qf6 Nge8 60. Qf8 Ng7 61. Qg8 Re7 62. Kf2 Kb7 63. Qf8 Rd7 64. Kg3 Nf5+ 65. Kf3 Ng7 66. Kf2 Kc6 67. Qg8 Re7 68. Kf3 Rd7 69. Qb8 Rf7 70. Kg4 a6 71. Qc8 Re7 72. Qf8 Rd7 73. Kf3 Kb7 74. Qf6 Nge8 75. Qh6 Rf7 76. Ke2 Ng7 (depth 49, 0:35:23)

Here's the game as it currently stands.
[pgn]
[White "Lyudmil"]
[Black "asmFish"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. f4 b6 8. Bb5+
Bd7 9. Bd3 Ba4 10. Nf3 c4 11. Be2 f5 12. Be3 Qd7 13. Bf2 Nbc6 14. O-O O-O-O 15.
Qd2 h6 16. Be3 Kb7 17. g3 Rdg8 18. Rf2 Rd8 19. Kh1 Rhg8 20. Rg1 Qe8 21. h3 Qh5
22. Rh2 Rgf8 23. g4 Qf7 24. g5 Rh8 25. Bf2 Rdg8 26. Nh4 Qf8 27. Ng2 Ng6 28. Qc1
Nb8 29. Bh5 Be8 30. Bf3 Ne7 31. h4 Na6 32. Ne3 Kb8 33. Qa1 Ba4 34. Qc1 Nc7 35.
Qb2 hxg5 36. fxg5 f4 37. Ng2 Qf5 38. h5 Qxg5 39. Bh4 Nf5 40. Ne1 Qxh4
[/pgn]

well, that already changes all of white's conception.

I have to reanalyse it all, and that takes too much energy.

seriously, let's play move by move strictly, otherwise I get too much distracted, and I guess it is better for your SF too.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

so, my move is 33.Qa1:

[d]1k2bqrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/Q5RK b - - 4 33

only single moves allowed now, and eval.

PS. the point is to show white has quite some advantage even in black's best line, so that dark-age reading public gets educated, changing the score from negative to positive, actually, that is the objective nature of the position, as white indeed has sensible advantage, but your SF would like to take the win too, even if positionally it does not have the right to...

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

If we've been miscommunicating, I apologize, but I'm not concerned if the Winawer is trappy, sharp or dangerous to play for black - only if it is lost.

For over-the-board chess though, this is quite important. It's highly unlikely something as well-known and main line as the French Winawer will be LOST. But if 90% of lines lead to a black loss, that's a big deal for human chess.

At the moment, I just can't see black is in any trouble.

human databases give 41 vs 30 % white wins, that should tell something.

this is well beyond the average opening success for white, counting Sicilians, Ruy Lopez and any other system around.

play short castle, and I will show you how white wins.

PS. sorry that I can not pay more attention to you, but am simply currently doing too many distracting things.

Next weekend I have a tournament and my opponents will be in the 2100 - 2400 elo range. Several of them are French defence players.

It would be great if you could suggest the plans for white. We can fine-tune the moves later to see the final & correct evaluation, but what I want is to be able to bring to the board something unusual with a plan.

At the moment that line we looked at:


In the line: 7.f4 Qa5 8.Bd2 (8.Nf3!? cd) cd 9.cd Qa4 10.Nf3 b6 11.c3 Qd1 12.Kd1 (or Rd1) Ba6!

- And I'd probably prefer black -


but this probably wouldn't occur over the board.

What's the general plan if black castles short?

please, understand that I really don't have the time to play/analyse couple of games simultaneously.

just follow our game with Louis, and I bet you will learn quite a lot of things.

the general plan, if black castles short is that black gets mated in a summary fashion.

the white pointed chain, c3-d4-e5, will point towards the enemy king side, and that is worth some half a pawn or so, so this definitely decides the game.

if black castles long, the white pointed chain already points away from the black king position, on the queen side, so the 50cps bonus is not counted in, and white probably only has modest advantage, 20-40cps or so, by perfect play, while I still don't exclude the possibility that white is winning even that line.

[zullil]

so, my move is 33.Qa1:

[d]1k2bqrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/Q5RK b - - 4 33

only single moves allowed now, and eval.

PS. the point is to show white has quite some advantage even in black's best line, so that dark-age reading public gets educated, changing the score from negative to positive, actually, that is the objective nature of the position, as white indeed has sensible advantage, but your SF would like to take the win too, even if positionally it does not have the right to...

OK, single moves with evaluations only.

-0.43 33... Ba4
[D] 1k3qrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/Q5RK w - - 5 34

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

so, my move is 33.Qa1:

[d]1k2bqrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/2pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/Q5RK b - - 4 33

only single moves allowed now, and eval.

PS. the point is to show white has quite some advantage even in black's best line, so that dark-age reading public gets educated, changing the score from negative to positive, actually, that is the objective nature of the position, as white indeed has sensible advantage, but your SF would like to take the win too, even if positionally it does not have the right to...

OK, single moves with evaluations only.

-0.43 33... Ba4
[D] 1k3qrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P2B1R/Q5RK w - - 5 34

Be1:

[d]1k3qrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P4R/Q3B1RK b - - 0 1

[zullil]

[

Be1:

[d]1k3qrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P4R/Q3B1RK b - - 0 1

-0.43 34... Qe8
[D] 1k2q1rr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P4R/Q3B1RK w - - 7 35

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[

Be1:

[d]1k3qrr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P4R/Q3B1RK b - - 0 1

-0.43 34... Qe8
[D] 1k2q1rr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P1NB2/2P4R/Q3B1RK w - - 7 35

Nd1:

[d]1k2q1rr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P2B2/2P4R/Q2NB1RK b - - 0 2

[zullil]

Nd1:

[d]1k2q1rr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P2B2/2P4R/Q2NB1RK b - - 0 2

-0.35 35... Nc7
[D] 1k2q1rr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P2B2/2P4R/Q2NB1RK w - - 9 36

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Nd1:

[d]1k2q1rr/p3n1p1/np2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P2B2/2P4R/Q2NB1RK b - - 0 2

-0.35 35... Nc7
[D] 1k2q1rr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P2B2/2P4R/Q2NB1RK w - - 9 36

Nb2:

[d]1k2q1rr/p1n1n1p1/1p2p2p/3pPpP1/b1pP1P1P/P1P2B2/1NP4R/Q3B1RK b - - 0 3