MYG

Graham Banks · Post by **Graham Banks** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:07 am

wolfman wrote:My bet is on a new Hiarcs. It was said to be released this autumn.
Eran

From memory, Mark Uniacke doesn't give out pre-releases to be tested by others either.

As Ingo is a Shredder tester, it could well be a new Shredder, although I'd be surprised, as it wasn't that long ago that Shredder 13 was released.

Laskos · Post by **Laskos** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:09 am

JJJ wrote:
Yes, it was vanishing game after game. This engine is really close to Stockfish dev. 20 games to go , 20 game to know

Interesting to note that although 3520 games were played (16x220), only 3300 (15x220) will be kept in the rating list of TOP16. I will take here the main pretends, Houdini and Shredder. If X = Houdini, the 220 games against Houdini 5 will be eliminated. X had a very good performance against Houdini 5, so the final rating will be a bit deflated. If X = Shredder, it had an average performance there against Shredder 13, so the final rating is almost unchanged.

I estimate that in the final Ordo rating on 3300 games (1 engine, 220 games eliminated) is the following (if I am not doing something wrong, without having actual results in PGN):

If X = Houdini, X will be about 24 ELO points (add or take 3 points) above Komodo 11.2.2, and the performance graph is the following (Houdini 5 games eliminated):

Seems indeed Houdinish performance.

If X = Shredder, X will be about 28 ELO points (add or take 3 points) above Komodo 11.2.2, and the performance graph is the following (Shredder 13 games eliminated):

Hard to say here how it looks.

Let's see the Ingo's ratings, they should come soon. And I hope he will tell what is X

Guenther · Post by **Guenther** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:46 am

Laskos wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Yes, it was vanishing game after game. This engine is really close to Stockfish dev. 20 games to go , 20 game to know :)
Interesting to note that although 3520 games were played (16x220), only 3300 (15x220) will be kept in the rating list of TOP16. I will take here the main pretends, Houdini and Shredder. If X = Houdini, the 220 games against Houdini 5 will be eliminated. X had a very good performance against Houdini 5, so the final rating will be a bit deflated. If X = Shredder, it had an average performance there against Shredder 13, so the final rating is almost unchanged.

I estimate that in the final Ordo rating on 3300 games (1 engine, 220 games eliminated) is the following (if I am not doing something wrong, without having actual results in PGN):

If X = Houdini, X will be about 24 ELO points (add or take 3 points) above Komodo 11.2.2, and the performance graph is the following (Houdini 5 games eliminated):

Seems indeed Houdinish performance.

If X = Shredder, X will be about 28 ELO points (add or take 3 points) above Komodo 11.2.2, and the performance graph is the following (Shredder 13 games eliminated):

Hard to say here how it looks.

Let's see the Ingo's ratings, they should come soon. And I hope he will tell what is X

Still looks to me like an H6 who 'looked too deep' into SF dev, hopefully I am wrong...

JJJ · Post by **JJJ** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:50 am

It is. Too bad he did "only" 52% against Stockfish 8 , because it might not be enough to win TCEC, but at least that put it in good shape to reach the superfinal again.

IWB · Post by **IWB** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:56 pm

Hello all,

most of you guessed right - but as this is a Houdini pre release version it will not be included officially in my list.
Nonetheless here is how it would look like:

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER              &#58; RATING  ERROR     (%)    D&#40;%)  OppAvg   CFS&#40;next&#41;    POINTS       W       D       L  PLAYED
   1 NEW                 &#58;   3343     10   81.7%    30.3    3059     100        2694.5    2195     999     106    3300
   2 Komodo 11.2.2       &#58;   3313     10   78.9%    34.5    3061      98        2604.0    2034    1140     126    3300
   3 Stockfish 8         &#58;   3298     10   77.4%    39.1    3062     100        2555.5    1910    1291      99    3300
   4 Shredder 13         &#58;   3119      8   56.3%    50.7    3074     100        1859.5    1023    1673     604    3300
   5 Fizbo 1.9           &#58;   3069      8   49.7%    42.9    3078      96        1640.0     932    1416     952    3300
   6 Ginkgo 2.0          &#58;   3059      8   48.3%    49.8    3078      70        1593.0     772    1642     886    3300
   7 Gull 3              &#58;   3056      8   47.8%    47.9    3078     100        1579.0     788    1582     930    3300
   8 Booot 6.2           &#58;   3025      8   43.7%    50.6    3080      57        1442.5     608    1669    1023    3300
   9 Jonny 8.00          &#58;   3024      7   43.6%    46.4    3081      65        1438.0     672    1532    1096    3300
  10 Andscacs 0.90       &#58;   3022      8   43.3%    45.3    3081     100        1428.5     681    1495    1124    3300
  11 Equinox 3.30        &#58;   3004      8   40.8%    47.9    3082      97        1348.0     558    1580    1162    3300
  12 Critter 1.6a        &#58;   2993      8   39.4%    47.2    3083      50        1300.0     522    1556    1222    3300
  13 Chiron 4            &#58;   2993      9   39.4%    45.3    3083      51        1300.0     553    1494    1253    3300
  14 Fritz 15            &#58;   2993      8   39.4%    47.2    3083     100        1299.5     520    1559    1221    3300
  15 Nirvanachess 2.4    &#58;   2964      8   35.6%    44.9    3085      90        1175.5     434    1483    1383    3300
  16 Hannibal 1.7        &#58;   2956      8   34.6%    44.2    3085     ---        1142.5     413    1459    1428    3300

and as a comparision this is the current list:

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER              &#58; RATING  ERROR     (%)    D&#40;%)  OppAvg   CFS&#40;next&#41;    POINTS       W       D       L  PLAYED
   1 Komodo 11.2.2       &#58;   3315     10   79.5%    34.7    3059      99        2625.0    2053    1144     103    3300
   2 Stockfish 8         &#58;   3299     10   78.0%    39.7    3060      99        2573.0    1918    1310      72    3300
   3 Houdini 5.01        &#58;   3281     10   76.2%    39.2    3061     100        2514.0    1868    1292     140    3300
   4 Shredder 13         &#58;   3120      8   56.8%    51.8    3072     100        1875.0    1021    1708     571    3300
   5 Fizbo 1.9           &#58;   3070      8   50.0%    43.4    3075      94        1651.0     935    1432     933    3300
   6 Ginkgo 2.0          &#58;   3062      8   48.8%    50.8    3075      81        1611.0     772    1678     850    3300
   7 Gull 3              &#58;   3056      8   48.1%    48.3    3076     100        1587.0     790    1594     916    3300
   8 Booot 6.2           &#58;   3028      8   44.2%    51.5    3078      68        1458.5     608    1701     991    3300
   9 Jonny 8.00          &#58;   3025      8   43.8%    46.9    3078      66        1446.5     672    1549    1079    3300
  10 Andscacs 0.90       &#58;   3023      8   43.5%    45.6    3078     100        1436.0     684    1504    1112    3300
  11 Equinox 3.30        &#58;   3006      8   41.2%    48.4    3079      96        1358.0     560    1596    1144    3300
  12 Fritz 15            &#58;   2995      8   39.7%    47.9    3080      55        1311.0     520    1582    1198    3300
  13 Chiron 4            &#58;   2994      8   39.6%    45.8    3080      58        1307.5     551    1513    1236    3300
  14 Critter 1.6a        &#58;   2993      8   39.5%    47.4    3080     100        1302.5     520    1565    1215    3300
  15 Nirvanachess 2.4    &#58;   2967      8   36.0%    45.6    3082      87        1187.0     434    1506    1360    3300
  16 Hannibal 1.7        &#58;   2960      8   35.1%    44.9    3082     ---        1157.0     416    1482    1402    3300

I am impressed, I did not expect that result!

I hope you enjoyed the run as much as I did

Ingo

PS: FYI: a 1 month old SF dev was below that in my setup

Lyudmil Tsvetkov · Post by **Lyudmil Tsvetkov** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:01 pm

IWB wrote:Hello all,

most of you guessed right - but as this is a Houdini pre release version it will not be included officially in my list.
Nonetheless here is how it would look like:

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER              &#58; RATING  ERROR     (%)    D&#40;%)  OppAvg   CFS&#40;next&#41;    POINTS       W       D       L  PLAYED
   1 NEW                 &#58;   3343     10   81.7%    30.3    3059     100        2694.5    2195     999     106    3300
   2 Komodo 11.2.2       &#58;   3313     10   78.9%    34.5    3061      98        2604.0    2034    1140     126    3300
   3 Stockfish 8         &#58;   3298     10   77.4%    39.1    3062     100        2555.5    1910    1291      99    3300
   4 Shredder 13         &#58;   3119      8   56.3%    50.7    3074     100        1859.5    1023    1673     604    3300
   5 Fizbo 1.9           &#58;   3069      8   49.7%    42.9    3078      96        1640.0     932    1416     952    3300
   6 Ginkgo 2.0          &#58;   3059      8   48.3%    49.8    3078      70        1593.0     772    1642     886    3300
   7 Gull 3              &#58;   3056      8   47.8%    47.9    3078     100        1579.0     788    1582     930    3300
   8 Booot 6.2           &#58;   3025      8   43.7%    50.6    3080      57        1442.5     608    1669    1023    3300
   9 Jonny 8.00          &#58;   3024      7   43.6%    46.4    3081      65        1438.0     672    1532    1096    3300
  10 Andscacs 0.90       &#58;   3022      8   43.3%    45.3    3081     100        1428.5     681    1495    1124    3300
  11 Equinox 3.30        &#58;   3004      8   40.8%    47.9    3082      97        1348.0     558    1580    1162    3300
  12 Critter 1.6a        &#58;   2993      8   39.4%    47.2    3083      50        1300.0     522    1556    1222    3300
  13 Chiron 4            &#58;   2993      9   39.4%    45.3    3083      51        1300.0     553    1494    1253    3300
  14 Fritz 15            &#58;   2993      8   39.4%    47.2    3083     100        1299.5     520    1559    1221    3300
  15 Nirvanachess 2.4    &#58;   2964      8   35.6%    44.9    3085      90        1175.5     434    1483    1383    3300
  16 Hannibal 1.7        &#58;   2956      8   34.6%    44.2    3085     ---        1142.5     413    1459    1428    3300

and as a comparision this is the current list:

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER              &#58; RATING  ERROR     (%)    D&#40;%)  OppAvg   CFS&#40;next&#41;    POINTS       W       D       L  PLAYED
   1 Komodo 11.2.2       &#58;   3315     10   79.5%    34.7    3059      99        2625.0    2053    1144     103    3300
   2 Stockfish 8         &#58;   3299     10   78.0%    39.7    3060      99        2573.0    1918    1310      72    3300
   3 Houdini 5.01        &#58;   3281     10   76.2%    39.2    3061     100        2514.0    1868    1292     140    3300
   4 Shredder 13         &#58;   3120      8   56.8%    51.8    3072     100        1875.0    1021    1708     571    3300
   5 Fizbo 1.9           &#58;   3070      8   50.0%    43.4    3075      94        1651.0     935    1432     933    3300
   6 Ginkgo 2.0          &#58;   3062      8   48.8%    50.8    3075      81        1611.0     772    1678     850    3300
   7 Gull 3              &#58;   3056      8   48.1%    48.3    3076     100        1587.0     790    1594     916    3300
   8 Booot 6.2           &#58;   3028      8   44.2%    51.5    3078      68        1458.5     608    1701     991    3300
   9 Jonny 8.00          &#58;   3025      8   43.8%    46.9    3078      66        1446.5     672    1549    1079    3300
  10 Andscacs 0.90       &#58;   3023      8   43.5%    45.6    3078     100        1436.0     684    1504    1112    3300
  11 Equinox 3.30        &#58;   3006      8   41.2%    48.4    3079      96        1358.0     560    1596    1144    3300
  12 Fritz 15            &#58;   2995      8   39.7%    47.9    3080      55        1311.0     520    1582    1198    3300
  13 Chiron 4            &#58;   2994      8   39.6%    45.8    3080      58        1307.5     551    1513    1236    3300
  14 Critter 1.6a        &#58;   2993      8   39.5%    47.4    3080     100        1302.5     520    1565    1215    3300
  15 Nirvanachess 2.4    &#58;   2967      8   36.0%    45.6    3082      87        1187.0     434    1506    1360    3300
  16 Hannibal 1.7        &#58;   2960      8   35.1%    44.9    3082     ---        1157.0     416    1482    1402    3300

I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did

Ingo

PS: FYI: a 1 month old SF dev is below that in my setup

that is to say: nothing NEW under the Sun.

Robert barely managed to keep pace with SF: they were on a par(+-10 elo) 1 year ago, and they are on a par now(+-10 elo).

besides, Houdini is using some contempt to beat up on weaker engines, so current SF development will still be on top.

again, my resume: nothing new under the sun.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov · Post by **Lyudmil Tsvetkov** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:04 pm

it already starts getting annoying: having 3 top engines for 5 years at fully or almost fully the same strength: for how long could that continue?

IWB · Post by **IWB** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:07 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:it already starts getting annoying: having 3 top engines for 5 years at fully or almost fully the same strength: for how long could that continue?

Besides your ranting about H - SF and nothing new (were I disagree), isn't having 3 engines much(!) more exciting than having allways the same engine for 5 years!?

Laskos · Post by **Laskos** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:28 pm

IWB wrote:Hello all,

most of you guessed right - but as this is a Houdini pre release version it will not be included officially in my list.
Nonetheless here is how it would look like:

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER              &#58; RATING  ERROR     (%)    D&#40;%)  OppAvg   CFS&#40;next&#41;    POINTS       W       D       L  PLAYED
   1 NEW                 &#58;   3343     10   81.7%    30.3    3059     100        2694.5    2195     999     106    3300
   2 Komodo 11.2.2       &#58;   3313     10   78.9%    34.5    3061      98        2604.0    2034    1140     126    3300
   3 Stockfish 8         &#58;   3298     10   77.4%    39.1    3062     100        2555.5    1910    1291      99    3300
   4 Shredder 13         &#58;   3119      8   56.3%    50.7    3074     100        1859.5    1023    1673     604    3300
   5 Fizbo 1.9           &#58;   3069      8   49.7%    42.9    3078      96        1640.0     932    1416     952    3300
   6 Ginkgo 2.0          &#58;   3059      8   48.3%    49.8    3078      70        1593.0     772    1642     886    3300
   7 Gull 3              &#58;   3056      8   47.8%    47.9    3078     100        1579.0     788    1582     930    3300
   8 Booot 6.2           &#58;   3025      8   43.7%    50.6    3080      57        1442.5     608    1669    1023    3300
   9 Jonny 8.00          &#58;   3024      7   43.6%    46.4    3081      65        1438.0     672    1532    1096    3300
  10 Andscacs 0.90       &#58;   3022      8   43.3%    45.3    3081     100        1428.5     681    1495    1124    3300
  11 Equinox 3.30        &#58;   3004      8   40.8%    47.9    3082      97        1348.0     558    1580    1162    3300
  12 Critter 1.6a        &#58;   2993      8   39.4%    47.2    3083      50        1300.0     522    1556    1222    3300
  13 Chiron 4            &#58;   2993      9   39.4%    45.3    3083      51        1300.0     553    1494    1253    3300
  14 Fritz 15            &#58;   2993      8   39.4%    47.2    3083     100        1299.5     520    1559    1221    3300
  15 Nirvanachess 2.4    &#58;   2964      8   35.6%    44.9    3085      90        1175.5     434    1483    1383    3300
  16 Hannibal 1.7        &#58;   2956      8   34.6%    44.2    3085     ---        1142.5     413    1459    1428    3300

and as a comparision this is the current list:

Code: Select all

   # PLAYER              &#58; RATING  ERROR     (%)    D&#40;%)  OppAvg   CFS&#40;next&#41;    POINTS       W       D       L  PLAYED
   1 Komodo 11.2.2       &#58;   3315     10   79.5%    34.7    3059      99        2625.0    2053    1144     103    3300
   2 Stockfish 8         &#58;   3299     10   78.0%    39.7    3060      99        2573.0    1918    1310      72    3300
   3 Houdini 5.01        &#58;   3281     10   76.2%    39.2    3061     100        2514.0    1868    1292     140    3300
   4 Shredder 13         &#58;   3120      8   56.8%    51.8    3072     100        1875.0    1021    1708     571    3300
   5 Fizbo 1.9           &#58;   3070      8   50.0%    43.4    3075      94        1651.0     935    1432     933    3300
   6 Ginkgo 2.0          &#58;   3062      8   48.8%    50.8    3075      81        1611.0     772    1678     850    3300
   7 Gull 3              &#58;   3056      8   48.1%    48.3    3076     100        1587.0     790    1594     916    3300
   8 Booot 6.2           &#58;   3028      8   44.2%    51.5    3078      68        1458.5     608    1701     991    3300
   9 Jonny 8.00          &#58;   3025      8   43.8%    46.9    3078      66        1446.5     672    1549    1079    3300
  10 Andscacs 0.90       &#58;   3023      8   43.5%    45.6    3078     100        1436.0     684    1504    1112    3300
  11 Equinox 3.30        &#58;   3006      8   41.2%    48.4    3079      96        1358.0     560    1596    1144    3300
  12 Fritz 15            &#58;   2995      8   39.7%    47.9    3080      55        1311.0     520    1582    1198    3300
  13 Chiron 4            &#58;   2994      8   39.6%    45.8    3080      58        1307.5     551    1513    1236    3300
  14 Critter 1.6a        &#58;   2993      8   39.5%    47.4    3080     100        1302.5     520    1565    1215    3300
  15 Nirvanachess 2.4    &#58;   2967      8   36.0%    45.6    3082      87        1187.0     434    1506    1360    3300
  16 Hannibal 1.7        &#58;   2960      8   35.1%    44.9    3082     ---        1157.0     416    1482    1402    3300

I am impressed, I did not expect that result!

I hope you enjoyed the run as much as I did

Ingo

PS: FYI: a 1 month old SF dev was below that in my setup

Thank you very much Ingo. Impressive results, and my ELO predictions were pretty accurate (aside the last, where I missed a couple of ELO points). Congratulations to Robert!

Laskos · Post by **Laskos** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:31 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
besides, Houdini is using some contempt to beat up on weaker engines, so current SF development will still be on top.

No significant Contempt in my plots. The scaling is the issue at TCEC. SMP seems fairly equal, but with time control, SF seems to scale a bit better (up to now, but things can change).

Re: MYG

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