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Human versus Machine
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Adam Kostas



Joined: 24 May 2014
Posts: 404

PostPost subject: Re: Human versus Machine    Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Comparing 'The Secret of Chess' and 'Human versus Machine: How to beat Stockfish and Komodo', I wrote the latter much quicker, the former took whole 4 months, but the interesting thing is how notions presented in 'The Secret of Chess' are visible in the games showcased in 'Human versus Machine'.

For example, the games exhibit patterns and notions like:

- twice backward shelter pawn on f7
- pointed chains
- white and black KID structures
- fully closed sides of the board, etc., etc.

all of which could be found in 'The Secret of Chess'.

Of course, it is actually the other way round: the many thousands of games(over 50 000, to be clear) I have played against engines and top engines and the knowledge I derived from them are reflected in the knowledge presented on the pages of 'The Secret of Chess'.

That is how I verified that knowledge: by playing an infinite number of games against the very top, and it seems to work.

If anyone would like to consider the games in 'Human versus Machine' as fake ones, well, you simply don't have a point, looking at the specific positions, you will not find even a single one that even distantly resembles any human or engine game you could find in any database.

There are simply no such games and positions, so who came up with the concept and system?
Also, checking evaluations, you will easily see the games are for real. Current Stockfish development version still does not understand most of them.

Again, why would beating Stockfish and Komodo be less interesting than reproducing a routine game from a public database?


Stockfish doesn't need to understand anything. It plays chess at a level that you could not even comprehend... who cares about fluke positions. Sure humans can understand when they've been mated and stuff like that. But chess is nothing more than brute force and computation. Computers have proven that no doubt. There's nothings left anymore for human interferences. Maybe you should consider playing a super GM. Not sure what there is to prove about playing chess versus code that can do things that the human brain simply cannot. The idea of understanding things is completely overrated which is pretty hilarious if you ask me.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:44 am
      Re: Human versus Machine Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:54 pm
            Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:25 am
      Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:56 am
            Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:59 am
                  Re: Human versus Machine Adam Kostas Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 pm
                        Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:23 am
      Re: Human versus Machine Michael B Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:24 am
            Re: Human versus Machine Nay Lin Tun Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:20 pm
                  Re: Human versus Machine Michael B Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 pm
                  Re: Human versus Machine Adam Kostas Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:20 pm
                        Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:57 am
                  Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:53 am
                        Re: Human versus Machine Uri Blass Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:55 pm
                              Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:34 am
            Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:32 am
                  Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:42 am
                  Re: Human versus Machine Michael B Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:55 am
                        Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:42 am
                              Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:46 am
                                    Part 2 Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:01 am
                                          Re: Part 2 Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:05 am
                                                Re: Part 2 Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:08 am
                                                      Re: Part 2 Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:16 am
                                                            A blast from the past Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:35 am
                                                                  Re: A blast from the past Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:38 am
                                                      Re: Part 2 T. Poppins Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:45 am
                                                            Re: Part 2 T. Poppins Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:30 am
                                                                  Re: Part 2 Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:33 am
                                                            Re: Part 2 Lyudmil Tsvetkov Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:39 am
      Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:01 pm
            Mean reviewers Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:41 am
                  Re: Mean reviewers Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:43 am
            Re: Human versus Machine duncan roberts Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:42 am
                  Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:14 am
                        Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:59 pm
                              Re: Human versus Machine Edsel Apostol Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:54 am
                                    Re: Human versus Machine Jean Baptiste Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:04 am
                                          Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:15 pm
                                    Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:13 pm
                                          Re: Human versus Machine Henk van den Belt Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 am
                                                Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:25 pm
                                                Re: Human versus Machine Larry Kaufman Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:11 pm
                                                      Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:55 pm
                                                      Re: Human versus Machine Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:35 pm
                                                            Re: Human versus Machine Guenther Simon Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:22 pm
                                                                  Re: Human versus Machine Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:44 pm
                                                                        Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:33 pm
                                                                              Re: Human versus Machine Larry Kaufman Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:11 am
                                                                                    Re: Human versus Machine Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:40 pm
      Part III Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:50 am
            Re: Part III Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:13 am
                  Re: Part III Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:02 am
                        Re: Part III Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:29 pm
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