Hello folks, here is a position that engine(s) struggle to understand without TBs.
[d]K6Q/8/8/p7/8/8/6kp/8 w - - 0 0
A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
-
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:04 am
- Location: France
- Full name: Richard Delorme
Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
I am not sure to understand, even my weak program dumb is able to draw it against stockfish 8.
[pgn][Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "linux.home"]
[Date "2017.11.29"]
[Round "-"]
[White "dumb 1.0"]
[Black "Stockfish 8 64 POPCNT"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
[FEN "K6Q/8/8/p7/8/8/6kp/8 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
{--------------
K . . . . . . Q
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
p . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . k p
. . . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. Qb2+ {+9,78/17} Kg3 {-4,79/37 23} 2. Qe5+ {+10,44/20 4} Kh3
{-4,79/34 14} 3. Qf5+ {+10,43/18 7} Kg3 {-4,79/38 11} 4. Qf1 {+10,44/20 8}
a4 {-3,64/26 4} 5. Kb7 {+0,00/18 8} a3 {-2,31/28 5} 6. Kc6 {+10,43/17 8} a2
{-0,29/31 5} 7. Kd5 {+10,44/16 8} a1=Q {-0,13/34 0,1} 8. Qxa1 {+10,44/19 5}
Kg2 {+0,00/29 0,1} 9. Qa2+ {+10,44/20 6} Kg1 {+0,00/35 6} 10. Qb1+
{+10,44/22 4} Kg2 {+0,00/35 6} 11. Qe4+ {+9,98/24 8} Kg1 {+0,00/37 0,1} 12.
Qg4+ {+0,00/24 8} Kh1 {+0,00/39 7} 13. Qd4 {+9,97/25 8} Kg2 {+0,00/1 0,1}
14. Qe4+ {+10,37/20 6} Kg1 {+0,00/54 7} 15. Qb1+ {+0,00/23 8} Kg2
{+0,00/60 17} 16. Qc2+ {+9,78/24 8} Kg1 {+0,00/35 9} 17. Qd1+ {+9,97/24 8}
Kg2 {+0,00/52 6} 18. Qe2+ {+9,97/21 6} Kg1 {+0,00/28 6} 19. Qd1+
{+10,37/24 5} Kg2 {+0,00/80 45} 20. Qg4+ {+0,00/25 8} Kh1 {+0,00/51 35} 21.
Qd4 {+0,00/23 8} Kg2 {+0,00/1 0,1} 22. Qb2+ {+9,76/23 7} Kg1 {+0,00/35 6}
23. Qb6+ {+9,67/21 4} Kg2 {+0,00/34 7} 24. Qg6+ {+9,63/23 8} Kh1
{+0,00/37 0,1} 25. Qe6 {+9,62/21 6} Kg1 {+0,00/36 10} 26. Qe3+ {+9,67/21 9}
Kg2 {+0,00/27 6} 27. Qe2+ {+9,67/22 6} Kg1 {+0,00/42 24} 28. Qe3+
{+9,61/24 6} Kg2 {+0,00/56 8} 29. Qg5+ {+9,61/24 5} Kh1 {+0,00/34 3} 30.
Qe5 {+1,02/21 9} Kg1 {+0,00/31 10} 31. Qg3+ {+9,66/21 9} Kh1 {+0,00/34 8}
32. Qe5 {+9,61/23 5} Kg1 {+0,00/56 1,1} 33. Qg7+ {+9,61/23 10} Kh1
{+0,00/34 5} 34. Qc3 {+9,63/24 10} Kg2 {+0,00/31 2,3} 35. Qd2+
{+0,00/24 10} Kg1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 36. Qc1+ {+0,82/21 10} Kg2 {+0,00/48 0,6}
37. Qb2+ {+1,02/22 10} Kg1 {+0,00/38 0,1} 38. Qa1+ {+0,00/19 10} Kg2
{+0,00/49 1,7} 39. Qg7+ {+0,72/18 10} Kh1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 40. Qc3
{+0,71/19 10} Kg2 {+0,00/49 1,0} 41. Qc2+ {+0,00/19 7} Kg1 {+0,00/39 18}
42. Qg6+ {+0,72/18 6} Kh1 {+0,00/45 14} 43. Qf5 {+0,72/18 6} Kg1
{+0,00/36 18} 44. Qg5+ {+0,49/16 7} Kh1 {+0,00/46 31} 45. Qd8 {+0,70/19 6}
Kg1 {+0,00/37 39} 46. Qg8+ {+0,72/18 8} Kh1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 47. Qe6
{+0,61/18 8} Kg1 {+0,00/59 16} 48. Kc4 {+0,53/17 8} h1=Q {+0,00/29 8} 49.
Qe1+ {+0,00/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/32 10} 50. Qe4+ {+0,00/17 8} Kg1
{+0,00/75 0,1} 51. Qd4+ {+0,00/16 8} Kf1 {+0,00/32 6} 52. Qf6+ {+0,37/16 8}
Kg2 {+0,00/32 7} 53. Qc6+ {+0,37/15 7} Kg1 {+0,00/29 13} 54. Qc5+
{+0,16/17 8} Kf1 {+0,00/24 5} 55. Qf5+ {+0,22/17 8} Ke2 {+0,00/28 1,4} 56.
Qe5+ {+0,17/16 6} Kf2 {+0,00/33 10} 57. Qd4+ {+0,19/16 4} Kg3
{+0,00/32 0,9} 58. Qe5+ {+0,14/16 8} Kf2 {+0,00/38 5} 59. Qc5+ {+0,08/15 6}
Ke1 {+0,00/30 7} 60. Qe3+ {+0,13/16 8} Kf1 {+0,00/33 0,1} 61. Qd3+
{+0,09/16 8} Kf2 {+0,00/30 5} 62. Qd2+ {+0,14/16 5} Kg3 {+0,00/36 21} 63.
Qg5+ {+0,00/18 8} Kf2 {+0,00/33 3} 64. Qc5+ {+0,24/16 8} Ke1 {+0,00/31 0,1}
65. Qe3+ {+0,12/15 8} Kf1 {+0,00/38 14} 66. Qd3+ {+0,12/17 8} Kg1
{+0,00/30 5} 67. Qd4+ {+0,20/15 8} Kf1 {+0,00/35 5} 68. Qf6+ {+0,11/16 5}
Kg2 {+0,00/34 14} 69. Qc6+ {+0,11/15 7} Kg1 {+0,00/37 8} 70. Qb6+
{+0,00/17 8} Kf1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 71. Qb1+ {+0,14/16 7} Kg2 {+0,00/79 0,1}
72. Qc2+ {+0,08/15 7} Kf1 {+0,00/27 1,2} 73. Qf5+ {+0,00/16 9} Ke2
{+0,00/28 1,2} 74. Qc2+ {+0,00/16 9} Kf1 {+0,00/27 1,6} 75. Qd1+
{+0,15/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/73 1,0} 76. Qd5+ {+0,00/16 9} Kh2 {+0,00/29 1,1}
77. Qe5+ {+0,03/15 8} Kg1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 78. Qe1+ {+0,06/16 9} Kg2
{+0,00/127 0,1} 79. Qe4+ {+0,07/17 9} Kg1 {+0,00/127 0,1} 80. Qb1+
{+0,01/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/34 5} 81. Qb7+ {+0,06/17 7} Kh2 {+0,00/36 16} 82.
Qh7+ {+0,00/17 6} Kg1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 83. Qd3 {+0,00/18 8} Qc6+
{+0,00/29 18} 84. Kd4 {+0,00/22 8} Qd6+ {+0,00/21 17} 85. Kc3
{+0,00/25 1,3} Qxd3+ {+0,00/20 21} 86. Kxd3 {+0,00/100 0,1}
{Xboard adjudication: Insufficient mating material} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "linux.home"]
[Date "2017.11.29"]
[Round "-"]
[White "dumb 1.0"]
[Black "Stockfish 8 64 POPCNT"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
[FEN "K6Q/8/8/p7/8/8/6kp/8 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
{--------------
K . . . . . . Q
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
p . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . k p
. . . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. Qb2+ {+9,78/17} Kg3 {-4,79/37 23} 2. Qe5+ {+10,44/20 4} Kh3
{-4,79/34 14} 3. Qf5+ {+10,43/18 7} Kg3 {-4,79/38 11} 4. Qf1 {+10,44/20 8}
a4 {-3,64/26 4} 5. Kb7 {+0,00/18 8} a3 {-2,31/28 5} 6. Kc6 {+10,43/17 8} a2
{-0,29/31 5} 7. Kd5 {+10,44/16 8} a1=Q {-0,13/34 0,1} 8. Qxa1 {+10,44/19 5}
Kg2 {+0,00/29 0,1} 9. Qa2+ {+10,44/20 6} Kg1 {+0,00/35 6} 10. Qb1+
{+10,44/22 4} Kg2 {+0,00/35 6} 11. Qe4+ {+9,98/24 8} Kg1 {+0,00/37 0,1} 12.
Qg4+ {+0,00/24 8} Kh1 {+0,00/39 7} 13. Qd4 {+9,97/25 8} Kg2 {+0,00/1 0,1}
14. Qe4+ {+10,37/20 6} Kg1 {+0,00/54 7} 15. Qb1+ {+0,00/23 8} Kg2
{+0,00/60 17} 16. Qc2+ {+9,78/24 8} Kg1 {+0,00/35 9} 17. Qd1+ {+9,97/24 8}
Kg2 {+0,00/52 6} 18. Qe2+ {+9,97/21 6} Kg1 {+0,00/28 6} 19. Qd1+
{+10,37/24 5} Kg2 {+0,00/80 45} 20. Qg4+ {+0,00/25 8} Kh1 {+0,00/51 35} 21.
Qd4 {+0,00/23 8} Kg2 {+0,00/1 0,1} 22. Qb2+ {+9,76/23 7} Kg1 {+0,00/35 6}
23. Qb6+ {+9,67/21 4} Kg2 {+0,00/34 7} 24. Qg6+ {+9,63/23 8} Kh1
{+0,00/37 0,1} 25. Qe6 {+9,62/21 6} Kg1 {+0,00/36 10} 26. Qe3+ {+9,67/21 9}
Kg2 {+0,00/27 6} 27. Qe2+ {+9,67/22 6} Kg1 {+0,00/42 24} 28. Qe3+
{+9,61/24 6} Kg2 {+0,00/56 8} 29. Qg5+ {+9,61/24 5} Kh1 {+0,00/34 3} 30.
Qe5 {+1,02/21 9} Kg1 {+0,00/31 10} 31. Qg3+ {+9,66/21 9} Kh1 {+0,00/34 8}
32. Qe5 {+9,61/23 5} Kg1 {+0,00/56 1,1} 33. Qg7+ {+9,61/23 10} Kh1
{+0,00/34 5} 34. Qc3 {+9,63/24 10} Kg2 {+0,00/31 2,3} 35. Qd2+
{+0,00/24 10} Kg1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 36. Qc1+ {+0,82/21 10} Kg2 {+0,00/48 0,6}
37. Qb2+ {+1,02/22 10} Kg1 {+0,00/38 0,1} 38. Qa1+ {+0,00/19 10} Kg2
{+0,00/49 1,7} 39. Qg7+ {+0,72/18 10} Kh1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 40. Qc3
{+0,71/19 10} Kg2 {+0,00/49 1,0} 41. Qc2+ {+0,00/19 7} Kg1 {+0,00/39 18}
42. Qg6+ {+0,72/18 6} Kh1 {+0,00/45 14} 43. Qf5 {+0,72/18 6} Kg1
{+0,00/36 18} 44. Qg5+ {+0,49/16 7} Kh1 {+0,00/46 31} 45. Qd8 {+0,70/19 6}
Kg1 {+0,00/37 39} 46. Qg8+ {+0,72/18 8} Kh1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 47. Qe6
{+0,61/18 8} Kg1 {+0,00/59 16} 48. Kc4 {+0,53/17 8} h1=Q {+0,00/29 8} 49.
Qe1+ {+0,00/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/32 10} 50. Qe4+ {+0,00/17 8} Kg1
{+0,00/75 0,1} 51. Qd4+ {+0,00/16 8} Kf1 {+0,00/32 6} 52. Qf6+ {+0,37/16 8}
Kg2 {+0,00/32 7} 53. Qc6+ {+0,37/15 7} Kg1 {+0,00/29 13} 54. Qc5+
{+0,16/17 8} Kf1 {+0,00/24 5} 55. Qf5+ {+0,22/17 8} Ke2 {+0,00/28 1,4} 56.
Qe5+ {+0,17/16 6} Kf2 {+0,00/33 10} 57. Qd4+ {+0,19/16 4} Kg3
{+0,00/32 0,9} 58. Qe5+ {+0,14/16 8} Kf2 {+0,00/38 5} 59. Qc5+ {+0,08/15 6}
Ke1 {+0,00/30 7} 60. Qe3+ {+0,13/16 8} Kf1 {+0,00/33 0,1} 61. Qd3+
{+0,09/16 8} Kf2 {+0,00/30 5} 62. Qd2+ {+0,14/16 5} Kg3 {+0,00/36 21} 63.
Qg5+ {+0,00/18 8} Kf2 {+0,00/33 3} 64. Qc5+ {+0,24/16 8} Ke1 {+0,00/31 0,1}
65. Qe3+ {+0,12/15 8} Kf1 {+0,00/38 14} 66. Qd3+ {+0,12/17 8} Kg1
{+0,00/30 5} 67. Qd4+ {+0,20/15 8} Kf1 {+0,00/35 5} 68. Qf6+ {+0,11/16 5}
Kg2 {+0,00/34 14} 69. Qc6+ {+0,11/15 7} Kg1 {+0,00/37 8} 70. Qb6+
{+0,00/17 8} Kf1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 71. Qb1+ {+0,14/16 7} Kg2 {+0,00/79 0,1}
72. Qc2+ {+0,08/15 7} Kf1 {+0,00/27 1,2} 73. Qf5+ {+0,00/16 9} Ke2
{+0,00/28 1,2} 74. Qc2+ {+0,00/16 9} Kf1 {+0,00/27 1,6} 75. Qd1+
{+0,15/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/73 1,0} 76. Qd5+ {+0,00/16 9} Kh2 {+0,00/29 1,1}
77. Qe5+ {+0,03/15 8} Kg1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 78. Qe1+ {+0,06/16 9} Kg2
{+0,00/127 0,1} 79. Qe4+ {+0,07/17 9} Kg1 {+0,00/127 0,1} 80. Qb1+
{+0,01/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/34 5} 81. Qb7+ {+0,06/17 7} Kh2 {+0,00/36 16} 82.
Qh7+ {+0,00/17 6} Kg1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 83. Qd3 {+0,00/18 8} Qc6+
{+0,00/29 18} 84. Kd4 {+0,00/22 8} Qd6+ {+0,00/21 17} 85. Kc3
{+0,00/25 1,3} Qxd3+ {+0,00/20 21} 86. Kxd3 {+0,00/100 0,1}
{Xboard adjudication: Insufficient mating material} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
Richard Delorme
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
abulmo2 wrote:I am not sure to understand, even my weak program dumb is able to draw it against stockfish 8.
[pgn][Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "linux.home"]
[Date "2017.11.29"]
[Round "-"]
[White "dumb 1.0"]
[Black "Stockfish 8 64 POPCNT"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
[FEN "K6Q/8/8/p7/8/8/6kp/8 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
{--------------
K . . . . . . Q
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
p . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . k p
. . . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. Qb2+ {+9,78/17} Kg3 {-4,79/37 23} 2. Qe5+ {+10,44/20 4} Kh3
{-4,79/34 14} 3. Qf5+ {+10,43/18 7} Kg3 {-4,79/38 11} 4. Qf1 {+10,44/20 8}
a4 {-3,64/26 4} 5. Kb7 {+0,00/18 8} a3 {-2,31/28 5} 6. Kc6 {+10,43/17 8} a2
{-0,29/31 5} 7. Kd5 {+10,44/16 8} a1=Q {-0,13/34 0,1} 8. Qxa1 {+10,44/19 5}
Kg2 {+0,00/29 0,1} 9. Qa2+ {+10,44/20 6} Kg1 {+0,00/35 6} 10. Qb1+
{+10,44/22 4} Kg2 {+0,00/35 6} 11. Qe4+ {+9,98/24 8} Kg1 {+0,00/37 0,1} 12.
Qg4+ {+0,00/24 8} Kh1 {+0,00/39 7} 13. Qd4 {+9,97/25 8} Kg2 {+0,00/1 0,1}
14. Qe4+ {+10,37/20 6} Kg1 {+0,00/54 7} 15. Qb1+ {+0,00/23 8} Kg2
{+0,00/60 17} 16. Qc2+ {+9,78/24 8} Kg1 {+0,00/35 9} 17. Qd1+ {+9,97/24 8}
Kg2 {+0,00/52 6} 18. Qe2+ {+9,97/21 6} Kg1 {+0,00/28 6} 19. Qd1+
{+10,37/24 5} Kg2 {+0,00/80 45} 20. Qg4+ {+0,00/25 8} Kh1 {+0,00/51 35} 21.
Qd4 {+0,00/23 8} Kg2 {+0,00/1 0,1} 22. Qb2+ {+9,76/23 7} Kg1 {+0,00/35 6}
23. Qb6+ {+9,67/21 4} Kg2 {+0,00/34 7} 24. Qg6+ {+9,63/23 8} Kh1
{+0,00/37 0,1} 25. Qe6 {+9,62/21 6} Kg1 {+0,00/36 10} 26. Qe3+ {+9,67/21 9}
Kg2 {+0,00/27 6} 27. Qe2+ {+9,67/22 6} Kg1 {+0,00/42 24} 28. Qe3+
{+9,61/24 6} Kg2 {+0,00/56 8} 29. Qg5+ {+9,61/24 5} Kh1 {+0,00/34 3} 30.
Qe5 {+1,02/21 9} Kg1 {+0,00/31 10} 31. Qg3+ {+9,66/21 9} Kh1 {+0,00/34 8}
32. Qe5 {+9,61/23 5} Kg1 {+0,00/56 1,1} 33. Qg7+ {+9,61/23 10} Kh1
{+0,00/34 5} 34. Qc3 {+9,63/24 10} Kg2 {+0,00/31 2,3} 35. Qd2+
{+0,00/24 10} Kg1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 36. Qc1+ {+0,82/21 10} Kg2 {+0,00/48 0,6}
37. Qb2+ {+1,02/22 10} Kg1 {+0,00/38 0,1} 38. Qa1+ {+0,00/19 10} Kg2
{+0,00/49 1,7} 39. Qg7+ {+0,72/18 10} Kh1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 40. Qc3
{+0,71/19 10} Kg2 {+0,00/49 1,0} 41. Qc2+ {+0,00/19 7} Kg1 {+0,00/39 18}
42. Qg6+ {+0,72/18 6} Kh1 {+0,00/45 14} 43. Qf5 {+0,72/18 6} Kg1
{+0,00/36 18} 44. Qg5+ {+0,49/16 7} Kh1 {+0,00/46 31} 45. Qd8 {+0,70/19 6}
Kg1 {+0,00/37 39} 46. Qg8+ {+0,72/18 8} Kh1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 47. Qe6
{+0,61/18 8} Kg1 {+0,00/59 16} 48. Kc4 {+0,53/17 8} h1=Q {+0,00/29 8} 49.
Qe1+ {+0,00/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/32 10} 50. Qe4+ {+0,00/17 8} Kg1
{+0,00/75 0,1} 51. Qd4+ {+0,00/16 8} Kf1 {+0,00/32 6} 52. Qf6+ {+0,37/16 8}
Kg2 {+0,00/32 7} 53. Qc6+ {+0,37/15 7} Kg1 {+0,00/29 13} 54. Qc5+
{+0,16/17 8} Kf1 {+0,00/24 5} 55. Qf5+ {+0,22/17 8} Ke2 {+0,00/28 1,4} 56.
Qe5+ {+0,17/16 6} Kf2 {+0,00/33 10} 57. Qd4+ {+0,19/16 4} Kg3
{+0,00/32 0,9} 58. Qe5+ {+0,14/16 8} Kf2 {+0,00/38 5} 59. Qc5+ {+0,08/15 6}
Ke1 {+0,00/30 7} 60. Qe3+ {+0,13/16 8} Kf1 {+0,00/33 0,1} 61. Qd3+
{+0,09/16 8} Kf2 {+0,00/30 5} 62. Qd2+ {+0,14/16 5} Kg3 {+0,00/36 21} 63.
Qg5+ {+0,00/18 8} Kf2 {+0,00/33 3} 64. Qc5+ {+0,24/16 8} Ke1 {+0,00/31 0,1}
65. Qe3+ {+0,12/15 8} Kf1 {+0,00/38 14} 66. Qd3+ {+0,12/17 8} Kg1
{+0,00/30 5} 67. Qd4+ {+0,20/15 8} Kf1 {+0,00/35 5} 68. Qf6+ {+0,11/16 5}
Kg2 {+0,00/34 14} 69. Qc6+ {+0,11/15 7} Kg1 {+0,00/37 8} 70. Qb6+
{+0,00/17 8} Kf1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 71. Qb1+ {+0,14/16 7} Kg2 {+0,00/79 0,1}
72. Qc2+ {+0,08/15 7} Kf1 {+0,00/27 1,2} 73. Qf5+ {+0,00/16 9} Ke2
{+0,00/28 1,2} 74. Qc2+ {+0,00/16 9} Kf1 {+0,00/27 1,6} 75. Qd1+
{+0,15/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/73 1,0} 76. Qd5+ {+0,00/16 9} Kh2 {+0,00/29 1,1}
77. Qe5+ {+0,03/15 8} Kg1 {+0,00/39 0,1} 78. Qe1+ {+0,06/16 9} Kg2
{+0,00/127 0,1} 79. Qe4+ {+0,07/17 9} Kg1 {+0,00/127 0,1} 80. Qb1+
{+0,01/16 8} Kg2 {+0,00/34 5} 81. Qb7+ {+0,06/17 7} Kh2 {+0,00/36 16} 82.
Qh7+ {+0,00/17 6} Kg1 {+0,00/36 0,1} 83. Qd3 {+0,00/18 8} Qc6+
{+0,00/29 18} 84. Kd4 {+0,00/22 8} Qd6+ {+0,00/21 17} 85. Kc3
{+0,00/25 1,3} Qxd3+ {+0,00/20 21} 86. Kxd3 {+0,00/100 0,1}
{Xboard adjudication: Insufficient mating material} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
My point is that engine(s) think that white is winning. For example, Stockfish would trade to this endgame believing it is winning.
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
Houdini 6 understands this:
1.Qg7+ Kf2 2.Qd4+ Kg3 3.Qe3+ Kg2 4.Qg5+ Kh3 5.Qd5 Kg3 6.Qe5+ Kg2 7.Qe4+ Kg3 8.Kb7 a4 9.Qe1+ Kg2 10.Qe2+ Kg3 11.Qd3+ Kg2 12.Qd2+ Kg3 13.Qc3+ Kg2 14.Qc6+ Kg3 15.Qg6+ Kf2 16.Qf5+ Kg3 17.Qe5+ Kg2 18.Qg7+ Kf1 19.Qh6 Kg2 20.Qg5+ Kh3 21.Qd5 Kg3 22.Kb6 a3 23.Qd3+ Kg2 24.Qd2+ Kg3 25.Qg5+ Kh3 26.Qf5+ Kg3 27.Qe5+ Kg2 28.Qe2+ Kg3 29.Qe3+ Kg2 30.Qe4+
+- (1.76) Depth: 28/95 00:00:04 29173kN
1.Qg7+ Kf2 2.Qd4+ Kg3 3.Qe3+ Kg2 4.Qg5+ Kh3 5.Qd5 Kg3 6.Qe5+ Kg2 7.Qe4+ Kg3 8.Kb7 a4 9.Qe1+ Kg2 10.Qe2+ Kg3 11.Qd3+ Kg2 12.Qd2+ Kg3 13.Qc3+ Kg2 14.Qc6+ Kg3 15.Qg6+ Kf2 16.Qf5+ Kg3 17.Qe5+ Kg2 18.Qg7+ Kf1 19.Qh6 Kg2 20.Qg5+ Kh3 21.Qd5 Kg3 22.Kb6 a3 23.Qd3+ Kg2 24.Qd2+ Kg3 25.Qg5+ Kh3 26.Qf5+ Kg3 27.Qe5+ Kg2 28.Qe2+ Kg3 29.Qe3+ Kg2 30.Qe4+
+- (1.76) Depth: 28/95 00:00:04 29173kN
Jouni
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
There's no more good reason to not use Syzygy : they weight 1 GB for 3-4-5 pieces, it's quite small for now.Robert Flesher wrote:My point is that engine(s) think that white is winning. For example, Stockfish would trade to this endgame believing it is winning.
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
Jouni wrote:Houdini 6 understands this:
1.Qg7+ Kf2 2.Qd4+ Kg3 3.Qe3+ Kg2 4.Qg5+ Kh3 5.Qd5 Kg3 6.Qe5+ Kg2 7.Qe4+ Kg3 8.Kb7 a4 9.Qe1+ Kg2 10.Qe2+ Kg3 11.Qd3+ Kg2 12.Qd2+ Kg3 13.Qc3+ Kg2 14.Qc6+ Kg3 15.Qg6+ Kf2 16.Qf5+ Kg3 17.Qe5+ Kg2 18.Qg7+ Kf1 19.Qh6 Kg2 20.Qg5+ Kh3 21.Qd5 Kg3 22.Kb6 a3 23.Qd3+ Kg2 24.Qd2+ Kg3 25.Qg5+ Kh3 26.Qf5+ Kg3 27.Qe5+ Kg2 28.Qe2+ Kg3 29.Qe3+ Kg2 30.Qe4+
+- (1.76) Depth: 28/95 00:00:04 29173kN
Scoring the position as 1.76? When it's a draw?
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
Vinvin wrote:There's no more good reason to not use Syzygy : they weight 1 GB for 3-4-5 pieces, it's quite small for now.Robert Flesher wrote:My point is that engine(s) think that white is winning. For example, Stockfish would trade to this endgame believing it is winning.
This is true, but the position without TB was the point.
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
Thanks for sharing - but it’s nothing new under the sun. There are thousands if not millions of positions that fall into this category without tbs - that’s why we have tbs. When we get 16 men tbs, we will have perfect knowledge about chess but your statement above will still be true. It’s not going to change. 😊Robert Flesher wrote:Hello folks, here is a position that engine(s) struggle to understand without TBs.
[d]K6Q/8/8/p7/8/8/6kp/8 w - - 0 0
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
[d]8/3b4/p3p3/3pB3/2kP4/8/1K6/8 w - - 0 57
Why isn't this position recognized as dead draw by 3200+ engine?
Why isn't this position recognized as dead draw by 3200+ engine?
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Re: A position that engine(s) are clueless to understand
It's not being recognized as a win and that's about the best you're going to get. The code to make it say 0.00 is not required to get the draw.