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Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
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Milos Stanisavljevic



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 2474

PostPost subject: Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero    Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

smatovic wrote:
Quote:
Since no one of us has access to TPU it's only fair to count in terms of what is available (for example if we had Alpha0 x64 binary compile and wanted to run it at home).
1TPU ~ 30xE5-2699v3 (18 cores machine).
4TPUs ~ 2000 Haswell cores


Apples and Bananas,

Stockfish is not able to make use of these TPUs,
and AlphaZero depends probably heavily on floating point operations (maybe half precision) to query the neural network.

So the question might be, if an stripped down x86-64 version of AlphaZero, with only some hundred or thousand of nps, is still able to beat Stockfish.....dunno.



--
Srdja

No original paper is comparing apples and bananas. SF is running on general purpose hardware. TPUs are not commercially available so running alpha0 on TPUs is giving it huge unfair advantage.
It would be like running SF on special hardware where search is happening on conventional CPU and all evaluation is handled with hundreds if not thousands of FPGAa, something like DeepBlue. Then we could say that comparison is fair.
Even in this setup, if it was the most recent version of Brainfish (so with opening book), and normal TC like 40/40 not 1move/min, Alpha0 would probably loose.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Miguel Castanuela Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:39 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Gary Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Gary Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:25 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peter Martan Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:24 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jouni Uski Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:51 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:06 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:35 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:53 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:38 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Dan Cooper Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:34 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:34 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero AA Ross Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:43 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:47 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:52 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:54 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:57 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:59 am
                                                      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 am
                                                            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peter Martan Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:05 am
                                                                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:36 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:51 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:29 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:12 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:17 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:18 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:23 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:18 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:27 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:51 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Erin Dame Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:29 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:05 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:39 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Oleg Smirnov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:40 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:55 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Norman Schmidt Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:26 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:16 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mel Cooper Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:45 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:51 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Steve Maughan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:00 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:05 pm
      Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:18 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:36 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:24 pm
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:29 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:54 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:47 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:02 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Norman Schmidt Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:37 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Joseph Ellis Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:55 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Joseph Ellis Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:01 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:21 pm
                                          Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:59 am
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Antonov Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:04 am
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Ed Schroder Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:16 am
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:34 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Daniel Shawul Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:15 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:27 pm
                                                                        Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" AA Ross Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:33 pm
                                                                              Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Jouni Uski Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm
                                                                                    Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:55 pm
                                                                              Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:41 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:17 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:18 pm
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:35 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:45 pm
                                                                              Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:42 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:19 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Michael B Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:59 am
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:54 am
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:00 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:26 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:56 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:26 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:16 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:18 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:55 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:19 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:22 am
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Kenneth Regan Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:04 am
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish M ANSARI Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 am
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:01 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:58 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:34 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:42 am
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:53 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Luis Babboni Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:41 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:16 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:09 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish duncan roberts Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:13 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:59 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Henk van den Belt Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:47 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:16 am
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:17 am
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:11 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:35 pm
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:59 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Albert Silver Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:16 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:43 pm
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:59 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish fernando Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:05 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Joachim Rang Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:54 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:00 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:08 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:28 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:59 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 pm
                                                      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:36 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Miguel Castanuela Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:28 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:06 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peer Trunz Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:37 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:57 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Ian Osgood Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:34 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:08 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Greg Simpson Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:54 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Bicknell Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:50 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:49 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Bigler Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:56 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jouni Uski Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Bigler Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:00 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Kai Laskos Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:43 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:10 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:07 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:08 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:03 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:10 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Ian Osgood Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:57 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:12 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:37 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:25 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:55 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero fernando Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Kai Laskos Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:59 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:03 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:02 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:00 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jhor A. Vi Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:33 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:52 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:16 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Nay Lin Tun Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:08 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:31 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero T. Poppins Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:51 am
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