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Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov



Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 6031
PostPost subject: Re: Much weaker than Stockfish    Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
MikeGL wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
MikeGL wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
MikeGL wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
The training matches are different from the 100 games match with Stockfish.

Yes, the plot on the diagram is the training game, but 100 games per openning was played. 50-50, and the score below the diagram is on AlphaZero perspective.

Quote:

12 openings with reversed colours don't square in any way with 100 played games, so did they actually left some openings played more than others, or did not they flip colours?


12 opennings x 100 = 1,200 games total.


Before we were talking about 300 and 100, now 1200 suddenly appears...
The 64/36 score certainly comes from 100 games, unless they assigned random points for a win.
And in that sample, I see Alpha playing just 1.d4 and 1.Nf3.


Read the series of posts properly. It is 100 games per openning, you clearly don't understand Table 2.

300 games because you were talking about 1.e4 earlier which appears in 6 diagrams.
How many is 50 x 6 ?
You were claiming that AlphaZero didn't play 1.e4, i told you it did! 300 times it did play 1.e4 against SF8.

See the total summation below: 1,200 games for all 12 opennings. Come on man, even this very
basic stuff we argue?
Do you have the pgn for the training games, which, btw., are claimed to run into the thousands?


Note that all Training games are self-play (no SF8 involved). The 1,200 are all match games against SF8.
No data given in PDF about the total number of self-play for learning, neither were the self-play PGN published. Only SF8 match was published.
100 game match versus SF8 was played on all 12 common ECO openings.
I guess you are confused of the plotted graph being put beside the
diagram. The graph is self-play, the diagram is SF8 match.
Try to read the caption of Table 2 properly. 37 times if need be.


I am unable to read the pdf at all, when I open it, and I get a headache.
I usually don't read books that reference material; you either do something original, or better do nothing at all.

I guess too much info is simply tremendously unclear.
You still persist with your claim the 100-game match was played with 12 different openings.
100%12=4, so there is a remainder, and this is fully absurd.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Miguel Castanuela Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:39 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Gary Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Gary Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:25 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peter Martan Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:24 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jouni Uski Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:51 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:06 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:35 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:53 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:38 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Dan Cooper Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:34 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:34 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero AA Ross Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:43 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:47 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:52 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:54 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:57 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:59 am
                                                      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 am
                                                            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peter Martan Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:05 am
                                                                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:36 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:51 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:29 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:12 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:17 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:18 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:23 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:18 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:27 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:51 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Erin Dame Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:29 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:05 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:39 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Oleg Smirnov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:40 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:55 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Norman Schmidt Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:26 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:16 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mel Cooper Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:45 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:51 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Steve Maughan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:00 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:05 pm
      Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:18 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:36 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:24 pm
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:29 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:54 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:47 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:02 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Norman Schmidt Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:37 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Joseph Ellis Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:55 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Joseph Ellis Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:01 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:21 pm
                                          Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:59 am
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Antonov Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:04 am
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Ed Schroder Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:16 am
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:34 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Daniel Shawul Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:15 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:27 pm
                                                                        Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" AA Ross Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:33 pm
                                                                              Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Jouni Uski Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm
                                                                                    Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:55 pm
                                                                              Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:41 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:17 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:18 pm
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:35 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:45 pm
                                                                              Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:42 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:19 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Michael B Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:59 am
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:54 am
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:00 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:26 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:56 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:26 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:16 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:18 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:55 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:19 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:22 am
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Kenneth Regan Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:04 am
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish M ANSARI Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 am
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:01 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:58 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:34 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:42 am
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:53 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Luis Babboni Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:41 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:16 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:09 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish duncan roberts Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:13 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:59 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Henk van den Belt Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:47 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:16 am
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:17 am
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:11 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:35 pm
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:59 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:01 am
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Uri Blass Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:27 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Albert Silver Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:16 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:43 pm
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:59 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish fernando Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:05 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Joachim Rang Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:54 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:00 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:08 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:28 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:59 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 pm
                                                      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:36 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Miguel Castanuela Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:28 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:06 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peer Trunz Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:37 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:57 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Ian Osgood Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:34 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:08 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Greg Simpson Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:54 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Bicknell Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:50 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:49 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Bigler Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:56 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jouni Uski Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Bigler Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:00 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Kai Laskos Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:43 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:10 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:07 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:08 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:03 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:10 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Ian Osgood Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:57 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:12 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:37 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:25 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:55 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero fernando Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Kai Laskos Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:59 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:03 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:02 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:00 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jhor A. Vi Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:33 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:52 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:16 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Nay Lin Tun Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:08 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:31 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero T. Poppins Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:51 am
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