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AlphaZero vs Stockfish
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov



Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 5806

PostPost subject: Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish    Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

MikeGL wrote:
AdminX wrote:
Lion wrote:
I looked again the game in which AlphaZero sacrifices a knight on h6.
I donít believe this is brute force calculation so it makes what AlphaZero did even more impressive!


I viewed the game in question, and felt AlphaZero's play was almost Paul Morphy like in style. Beautiful play resulting in wonderful game to behold.


Indeed. Those games have so many test positions which are very deep.
One of them is the following,

[d]r2q1rk1/pb1nbppp/2p1p3/1p2P3/1PpPN1Q1/2B3P1/P4PBP/R4RK1 w - - 6 17
BR ::    BQ    BR BK ::
BP BB :: BN BB BP BP BP
   :: BP :: BP ::    ::
:: BP ::    WP    ::    
   WP BP WP WN :: WQ ::
::    WB    ::    WP    
WP ::    ::    WP WB WP
WR    ::    :: WR WK    

After 16...Nd7 of black, it is almost impossible for top engines to consider 17.Nc5 because
the Ne4 is already well placed and should not be exchanged.

But the idea by AlphaZero is very deep, this Nc5 move would trap the light-square Bishop
of black and will require a lot of time to free up, but wasn't freed up even until the end of the
game. It remained hemmed in to its own pawns.

So in my opinion, this 17.Nc5!! move is a very deep positional move which was understood
by AlphaZero, but not by current top engines. Because why would current engines exchange
a well placed piece?

Following is the game where the above position arised.


[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.12.06"]
[Round "8"]
[White "AlphaZero"]
[Black "Stockfish 8"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/1260:300"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "135"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 Be7 7. Nc3 c6 8.
e4 d5 9. e5 Ne4 10. O-O Ba6 11. b3 Nxc3 12. Bxc3 dxc4 13. b4 b5 14. Nd2 O-O
15. Ne4 Bb7 16. Qg4 Nd7 17. Nc5 Nxc5 18. dxc5 a5 19. a3 axb4 20. axb4 Rxa1
21. Rxa1 Qd3 22. Rc1 Ra8 23. h4 Qd8 24. Be4 Qc8 25. Kg2 Qc7 26. Qh5 g6 27.
Qg4 Bf8 28. h5 Rd8 29. Qh4 Qe7 30. Qf6 Qe8 31. Rh1 Rd7 32. hxg6 fxg6 33.
Qh4 Qe7 34. Qg4 Rd8 35. Bb2 Qf7 36. Bc1 c3 37. Be3 Be7 38. Qe2 Bf8 39. Qc2
Bg7 40. Qxc3 Qd7 41. Rc1 Qc7 42. Bg5 Rf8 43. f4 h6 44. Bf6 Bxf6 45. exf6
Qf7 46. Ra1 Qxf6 47. Qxf6 Rxf6 48. Ra7 Rf7 49. Bxg6 Rd7 50. Kf2 Kf8 51. g4
Bc8 52. Ra8 Rc7 53. Ke3 h5 54. gxh5 Kg7 55. Ra2 Re7 56. Be4 e5 57. Bxc6
exf4+ 58. Kxf4 Rf7+ 59. Ke5 Rf5+ 60. Kd6 Rxh5 61. Rg2+ Kf6 62. Kc7 Bf5 63.
Kb6 Rh4 64. Ka5 Bg4 65. Bxb5 Ke7 66. Rg3 Bc8 67. Re3+ Kf7 68. Be2 1-0


that would only confirm my theory about 2 friendly pawns on advanced ranks across a file, like e5 and c5 are after the exchange, being an asset and very strong at that.
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Subject Author Date/Time
AlphaZero vs Stockfish Bigler Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:28 pm
      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish kgburcham Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:46 am
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:03 am
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:23 am
                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:07 pm
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Peer Trunz Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:34 pm
                                    Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Eren Yavuz Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:18 am
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Eren Yavuz Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:02 am
                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:33 am
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Eren Yavuz Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:24 am
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Eren Yavuz Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:55 am
      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Ted Summers Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:08 am
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Nay Lin Tun Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:18 am
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:37 pm
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Brendan J. Norman Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:21 am
                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:49 am
                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Mike Libanan Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:27 am
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Mike Libanan Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:51 am
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Eren Yavuz Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:16 am
      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Ted Summers Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:24 am
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Vincent Lejeune Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:03 pm
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Vincent Lejeune Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:58 pm
      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:28 pm
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:32 pm
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:29 pm
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Johan van Mierle Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:48 pm
      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:55 am
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Anil V Dharan Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:32 am
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:47 pm
                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Carl Bicknell Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:50 pm
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Jouni Uski Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:20 pm
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:28 pm
                                    Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Carl Bicknell Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:19 am
                                          Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish H.G.Muller Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:00 am
                                                Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:33 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Jouni Uski Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:38 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Uri Blass Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:53 pm
                                                                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:18 pm
                                                                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Leo Anger Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:23 pm
                                                                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Rodolfo Leoni Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:33 pm
                                                                                    Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish John Rebert Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Rodolfo Leoni Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:41 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Leo Anger Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:19 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish H.G.Muller Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:14 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:55 pm
                                                                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish H.G.Muller Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:49 am
                                          Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Rodolfo Leoni Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:07 pm
            Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Roberto Possioto Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:18 am
                  Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:40 pm
                        Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Roberto Possioto Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:04 pm
                              Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:27 pm
                                    Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Roberto Possioto Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:04 am
                                          Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish John Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:25 pm
                                                Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish Uri Blass Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:31 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish John Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:26 am
      Re: AlphaZero vs Stockfish duncan roberts Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:06 am
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