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AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better
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Jacob Wilkins



Joined: 25 Dec 2016
Posts: 21

PostPost subject: Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better    Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:10 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

Because the games for Table 2 were not just organically played games.

They trained the neural nets with self play, and once training was done they took the 12 most popular openings according to their measure in human play and had SF and AlphaZero play matches from the resulting positions of each 12 (this is different than the main 100 game match from the start position).

They did that to test whether its strength extended past the openings it chose to play or not, and they conclude it does.

For each of those 12 openings, they include a graph that shows how often the opening occurred in self play during training.

1.e4 openings just stop occurring by the end of training, while 1.d4 openings start climbing, indicating a shift from 1.e4 to 1.d4.

1...c5 was never all that popular in self-play, even when 1.e4 was being played, and before 1.e4 openings stopped showing up altogether, Ruy Lopez spiked and other e4 defenses declined (and no Sicilian was ever popular in self-play).

Combine that with both black games in the reported 10 games from their main match having AlphaZero respond to 1.e4 with 1...e5 and start nearly every white game with 1.d4, and the other inferences are supported.

That was my reasoning Smile


Last edited by Jacob Wilkins on Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Subject Author Date/Time
AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:45 am
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Richard Delorme Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:16 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:26 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:34 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Hartmann Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:40 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:00 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:58 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:50 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:27 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:42 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:57 pm
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:07 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jacob Wilkins Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 pm
                                                                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jacob Wilkins Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:52 pm
                                                                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:03 pm
                                                                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jacob Wilkins Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:10 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Steve Maughan Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:43 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:22 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jon Dart Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:12 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:58 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:15 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:18 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Werner Schüle Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:48 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:44 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:40 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:07 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:29 pm
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:04 am
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 am
                                                            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ian Osgood Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:03 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:34 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:57 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:50 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:12 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:32 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Daniel Shawul Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:47 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:23 am
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:54 am
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:43 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:56 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:39 am
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:35 am
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:07 am
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:15 am
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:49 am
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:44 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:52 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:36 pm
                                                                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:40 pm
                                                                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:05 pm
                                                                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Robin Messemer Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:37 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:38 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:39 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:46 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:02 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:59 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:49 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Aloisio Ponti Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:36 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Pang Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:24 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:15 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Carl Langan Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:13 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:24 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ronald de Man Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:22 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:09 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:52 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Uri Blass Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Uri Blass Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:29 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:59 pm
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ronald de Man Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:47 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:58 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:33 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:39 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:15 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:29 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:11 pm
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