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Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
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Leo Anger



Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 297
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA

PostPost subject: Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8"    Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

[quote="supersharp77"]
corres wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:


Sorry, but this is not a scientific article, this is a report about DeepMind and they works and results.
Moreover it is inaccurate because AlphaZero do not start its learning from zero but it was feeded a lot of high quality human chess games before the self training. In this manner AlphaZero got a good quality specialized opening book but Stockfish did not use any opening book during tests and its hash table was only 1GB - instead of 64GB as normally used.
Another very important difference between Stockfish and AlphaZero is Stockfish does not preserve its games but AlphaZero has an incredible huge memory to preserve its "experience".
I think the difference between the power of AlphaZero's hardware and whichever hardware of chess engines is so huge that it is very incorrect any comparison between them. A comparison based on the position per seconds is very misleading because working of Stockfish and working of AplhaZero is different fundamentally.



=====================================

Note:To whom it may concern...We refuse to accept the conclusions of this "so called" defeat of Stockfish 8 by 'Alpha Zero' (a program no one seems to have heard of before this so called "result was published") If Google wants the chess engine community to accept these "conclusions" follow the 'RULES'of CHESS ENGINE TESTING..and Enter 'ALPHA ZERO" in TCEC or some other Recognized chess engine tournament...and let the Chips fall where they mayl....until then....The "Google Teams" results are 100% meaningless!! Very Happy Wink


Great statement. If the Cerebellum Brainfish people would release their program publically we could train it around the clock on a server and build our own chess engine book. I have played with cerebellum and it goes very deep. Its potential is a lot bigger because they use tiny hardware to improve it. Give SF Dev 128 GB or more of DDR4 4000 Mhz Ram and 30 overclocked cores plus 7 man EGTB. Maybe use a liquid nitrogen setup if that would help however that works. The mere 3 losses with black would be eliminated and maybe turned to wins. The 25 losses would be chipped away at. Much more drawn and some would be wins. Deep Mind or whatever it is called has accomplished something amazing and shaken up the chess computer world but they have not conquered the chess engine world until further notice. Why in the world didn't they let Deep Zero run for a week and learn. I think Milos might be right. After 4 hours it maxed out. It was saturated.
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Subject Author Date/Time
Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Miguel Castanuela Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:39 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Gary Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Gary Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:16 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:25 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peter Martan Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:24 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jouni Uski Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:51 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:06 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:35 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:53 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:38 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Dan Cooper Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:34 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:34 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero AA Ross Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:40 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:43 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:47 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:52 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:54 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:57 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:59 am
                                                      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 am
                                                            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peter Martan Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:05 am
                                                                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:36 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:51 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:29 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Michael B Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:12 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:17 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:18 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:23 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:18 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:27 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:51 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Erin Dame Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:29 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:05 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:39 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Oleg Smirnov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:40 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:55 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Norman Schmidt Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:26 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Vincent Lejeune Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:16 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mel Cooper Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:45 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:51 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Steve Maughan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:00 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:05 pm
      Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:18 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:36 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:24 pm
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:29 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:54 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:47 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:02 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Norman Schmidt Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:37 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Joseph Ellis Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:55 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Joseph Ellis Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:01 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:21 pm
                                          Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:59 am
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Antonov Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:04 am
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Ed Schroder Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:16 am
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:34 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Daniel Shawul Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:15 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:27 pm
                                                                        Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" AA Ross Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:33 pm
                                                                              Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Jouni Uski Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm
                                                                                    Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:55 pm
                                                                              Re:Alpha Zero's "Phantom Win over Stockfish 8" Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:41 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:17 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:18 pm
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm
                                                                  Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:35 pm
                                                                        Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:45 pm
                                                                              Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Hermann Krause Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:42 pm
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:19 pm
                                                Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Michael B Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:59 am
                                                      Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:54 am
                                                            Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:00 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:26 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:56 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:26 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:23 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:16 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:18 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:55 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:19 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:22 am
                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:48 pm
                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Kenneth Regan Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:04 am
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish M ANSARI Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 am
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:01 pm
                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:58 pm
                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm
                                                Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:34 pm
                                                      Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:42 am
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:53 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Luis Babboni Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:41 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:16 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:09 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish duncan roberts Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:13 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:59 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:38 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:03 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Thorsten Czub Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm
                                                                                          Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Henk van den Belt Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:47 pm
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:16 am
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:17 am
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:11 pm
                                                            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:35 pm
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:59 pm
                                                                              Re: Much weaker than Stockfish H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:19 am
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:01 am
                                                                                    Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Uri Blass Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:27 am
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Albert Silver Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:16 pm
                                                                        Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:43 pm
                                                                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish szabo, robert Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:59 pm
            Re: Much weaker than Stockfish fernando Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                  Re: Much weaker than Stockfish Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:05 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Joachim Rang Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:54 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:00 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:08 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:28 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:34 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:59 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 pm
                                                      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:36 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Miguel Castanuela Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:28 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:06 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Peer Trunz Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 pm
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:37 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:57 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Ian Osgood Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:34 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:08 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Greg Simpson Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Mike Libanan Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:54 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Bicknell Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:50 am
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:49 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Bigler Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:56 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jouni Uski Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Bigler Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:00 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Kai Laskos Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:43 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:10 pm
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:07 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:08 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:03 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:10 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Ian Osgood Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:57 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:12 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:37 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:25 am
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 am
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero duncan roberts Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:55 pm
      Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero fernando Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Albert Silver Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm
            Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Kai Laskos Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:59 pm
                  Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:03 am
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:02 am
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jean Baptiste Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:00 am
                                    Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Jhor A. Vi Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:33 am
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:52 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:16 pm
                                          Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Nay Lin Tun Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:08 am
                                                Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:31 pm
                        Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm
                              Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero T. Poppins Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:51 am
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