ChessUSA.com TalkChess.com
Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions.
Post new topic    TalkChess.com Forum Index -> Computer Chess Club: General Topics Flat
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions.
The time per move and hardware etc was fair.
51%
 51%  [ 27 ]
Google set it up to give Alpha Zero an edge.
48%
 48%  [ 25 ]
Voted : 52
Total Votes : 52
- Poll expired -

Author Message
Rasmus Althoff



Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 631

PostPost subject: Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions.    Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:08 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

The match was fair, and AlphaGo did NOT have massive hardware advantage, and it does NOT make sense to ask for it to run on x86. Just like it would not make sense to ask for Stockfish to run on TPUs.

Oh, the TPUs are more expensive? Of course they are because they are a brand new development, but the whole point of this match, from Google's point of view, was to prove that this hardware is suited to neural network applications. It was not specialised hardware like with Hydra or Deep Blue. It was general purpose NN hardware. The same hardware also plays Go and Shogi, something that Hydra or Deep Blue could not do - and neither could a Stockfish version boosted by FPGAs.

Oh, the hardware isn't for sale? Wrong point. Google doesn't sell them now because they can use their current monopoly better with cloud offers. But that creates a demand, and since Google has proven how capable these things are, others will catch up.

Just like others caught up when Intel started to put the 4004 into production, the first microprocessor actually available on the market. In fact, I think that Intel should finally wake up here after their failed adventures from Itanic to challenging ARM. Or maybe even AMD since they already have GPU competence. Or Nvidia.

Second, these TPUs with neural networks scale better than traditional cores which are subject to the law of diminishing returns, which is why Johnny with 2000 cores is still weaker than Stockfish. That's why these TPUs are not a one-time artifact like Hydra or Deep Blue - they are here to stay and change computing.

The energy consumption was comparable, that's the central point here, because that's what will determine the cost of the whole approach in the medium run.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Subject Author Date/Time
Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 am
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Anil V Dharan Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:47 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lonnie Cook Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:46 pm
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Graham Banks Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:05 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Roy Brunjes Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:28 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish .. A Bogus Win? AA Ross Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:35 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Michael B Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:04 am
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Robin Messemer Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:25 am
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:37 am
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Branko Radovanovic Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 pm
                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:29 pm
                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Nay Lin Tun Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:21 pm
                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:48 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:44 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Carl Lumma Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:44 am
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Nay Lin Tun Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:41 am
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Anil V Dharan Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:22 am
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Uri Blass Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:48 am
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:50 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Nabil Danial Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:55 am
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Damir Desevac Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:19 am
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:36 pm
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Evert Glebbeek Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:57 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. stavros atmatzidis Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:53 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Anil V Dharan Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:36 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. stavros atmatzidis Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:52 pm
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Leto Atreides Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:24 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:05 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:01 pm
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ted Summers Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:58 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. stavros atmatzidis Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:14 am
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Branko Radovanovic Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:04 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:23 pm
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:31 pm
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Richard Delorme Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:32 pm
                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 pm
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Branko Radovanovic Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:35 pm
                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. stavros atmatzidis Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:13 pm
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:12 pm
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:44 pm
                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:05 pm
                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:17 pm
                                                Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:26 pm
                                                      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:01 pm
                                                            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 pm
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:39 pm
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Rasmus Althoff Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:08 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:23 pm
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Rasmus Althoff Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:03 pm
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:39 pm
                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Rasmus Althoff Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:33 pm
                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:44 pm
                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Rasmus Althoff Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:31 pm
                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Carl Lumma Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:58 pm
                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:25 pm
                                                Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Uri Blass Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:35 pm
                                                Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:36 pm
                                                      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Jesse Gersenson Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:24 pm
                                                            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:05 pm
                                                                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Dariusz Orzechowski Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:23 pm
                                                                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:52 pm
                                                                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Dariusz Orzechowski Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:43 pm
                                                                                    Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:03 am
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:07 am
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Dariusz Orzechowski Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:50 am
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:13 am
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:22 am
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Jesse Gersenson Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:29 pm
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm
                                                                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:16 pm
                                                                  Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Jesse Gersenson Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 pm
                                                                        Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:47 pm
                                                                              Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Jesse Gersenson Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:01 pm
                                                            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Dan Ellwein Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:02 am
                                                      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Dariusz Orzechowski Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:35 pm
                                          Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Uri Blass Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:31 pm
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Forrest Hoch Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:07 am
            Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Lyudmil Tsvetkov Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:40 pm
      Re: Alpha Zero vs Stockfish 8 tournament conditions. Richard B Riddick Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:21 am
Post new topic    TalkChess.com Forum Index -> Computer Chess Club: General Topics

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Enhanced with Moby Threads