AlphaZero is not like other chess programs

[corres]

[quote="Milos"]

Read detailed description of MCTS from AGZ paper and it would be clear to you too.

[/quote]

Milos,
Where can I find "AGZ paper"?
Thanks
Robert

[pilgrimdan]

Read detailed description of MCTS from AGZ paper and it would be clear to you too.

Milos,
Where can I find "AGZ paper"?
Thanks
Robert

this may be it ...

https://deepmind.com/documents/119/agz_ ... nature.pdf

it will ask you if you want to save or open the pdf file ...

[tmokonen]

speaking of PDFs...

http://incompleteideas.net/book/bookdraft2017nov5.pdf

Reinforcement Learning: An Introduction, 2nd edition complete draft, almost the final version, except no index. Get it while it's free.

[corres]

[quote="shrapnel"]

You are again nit-picking, Szabo.

[/quote]

MR. Dharan,
Without nit-picking a well-working machine never can be made.
When the machine is working well you as a user can say any high-flown statement about it.
I am afraid you do not know that a neural network is a kinds of memory also.
The process of learning yields much million of chess games what influences the state of the neural network. So if AlphaZero meets a situation what it evaluated during teaching it can find the good winning move. This situation is like as a normal engine use an opening book with very high depth.
Bests.
Robert

[mclane]

To me it looks like stockfish, a very strong chess program so far,
Was beaten because AZ played speculative sacs and moves stockfish could not defend against within its search depth.
It ate each sac because it had no clue that the sac is Sound or will lead into a win for the opponent.

E.g. the game with Re1 .

Stockfish can be seen as a materialistic program eating a sacced piece to get a higher material value.

AZ meanwhile seems to play not for making best moves that lead to material wins, but to create and run a plan.
For the plan it sacs pieces.


So stockfish plays moves in a position that is exact within interval search depth.
But AZ plays plans in a completely different interval then stockfishs interval.

This plan making chess with speculative sacs is IMO very similar to human chess.

[shrapnel]

Immortal Zugzwang game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFXJWPhDsSY

[corres]

[quote="Uri Blass"]

probability is certainly not different from thought of human.

.[/quote]

Probability in AlphaZero is certainly different from thought of human.
During teaching and playing the machine counts the possible move number and counts the occurrence of every each move at the evaluated position. Based these numbers it calculates the possibility of occurrence for every each possible moves and it stores the result. In the played game AlphaZero moves the figure with most higher probability.

[corres]

[quote="pilgrimdan"]

this may be it ...

https://deepmind.com/documents/119/agz_ ... nature.pdf
it will ask you if you want to save or open the pdf file ...

[/quote]

Thanks for it.
Robert

[shrapnel]

Stockfish can be seen as a materialistic program eating a sacced piece to get a higher material value.

AZ meanwhile seems to play not for making best moves that lead to material wins, but to create and run a plan.
For the plan it sacs pieces.




This plan making chess with speculative sacs is IMO very similar to human chess.

Yes, that's what one of the Commentators said. Stockfish places a very high value on Material, probably because it was programmed that way. So poor Stockfish was probably already laboring under a handicap, while AlphaZero had no such handicaps as it learned all about chess itself within a few hours and was not influenced by the prejudices of humans .
Alphazero only wanted to win the game and it did not care how many Pieces it sacrificed in the Process.
That is indeed the very Foundation of chess.
At the same time, the sacrifices it made were not like a human player would make, or Stockfish would have seen through them.
The sacrifices Alphazero made were so deep, that even a powerful program like Stockfish could not see through them and was forced to accept them.
That in itself should give pause for thought to the most vociferous defenders of Stockfish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb3_eRNoH_w

[corres]

[quote="tmokonen"]speaking of PDFs...

http://incompleteideas.net/book/bookdraft2017nov5.pdf

Reinforcement Learning: An Introduction, 2nd edition complete draft, almost the final version, except no index. Get it while it's free.

[/quote]

Thanks.
Robert