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AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better
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Rodolfo Leoni



Joined: 06 Jun 2017
Posts: 544
Location: Italy

PostPost subject: Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better    Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:09 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote

syzygy wrote:
Rodolfo Leoni wrote:
One thing is 100% sure: when Google hardware will be available then correspondence chess will die. What's the point in playing games if the learning feature is advanced at a point where it only plays perfect games?

There is no reason to think that AlphaZero plays only perfect games. It might not even know about the wrong corner in KBNK. (Does that come up often enough in 44 million games for AlphaZero to figure it out? Maybe not, maybe it does, but even if it does there will be other patterns it won't have seen often enough.)

Show it one of those positions that are easy for humans, that fool all top engines and that never come up in real games, and I guarantee you AlphaZero will not have a clue either.


I think it's not matter of AlphaZero. AlphaZero is only the first raw software on a new spectacular hardware system. As I think all best computer chess programmers are here, I wonder what wonderful engines you, Marco, Mark Lefler, and any top one could build with that machine. And I think at a graph: 20 years ago there were several hundred thousends correspondence chess players. As engines strenght grew the number of players diminished. They are about 5000 at ICCF, at the present moment.

The % of drawish lines grew too. Now, with an hardware like that (and much stronger engines), I guess 99% of games could end as a draw. It's like an equalizer. On correspondence chess TCs, that equalizer could really vanquish the pleasure of playing a game.

Maybe it's a bit too pessimistic. The hardware isn't available, yet, and there are lots of things which one cannot understand about it. Let us see. Smile
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AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:45 am
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Richard Delorme Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:16 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:26 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:34 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Hartmann Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:40 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:00 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:58 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:50 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:27 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:42 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Norman Schmidt Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:57 pm
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:07 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jacob Wilkins Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 pm
                                                                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jacob Wilkins Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:52 pm
                                                                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Milos Stanisavljevic Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:03 pm
                                                                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jacob Wilkins Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:10 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Steve Maughan Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:43 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:22 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Jon Dart Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:12 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:58 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:15 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:18 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Werner Schüle Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:48 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:44 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:25 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:40 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:07 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:29 pm
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:04 am
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 am
                                                            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ian Osgood Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:03 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:34 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:57 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:50 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:12 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:32 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Daniel Shawul Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:47 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:23 am
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:54 am
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:43 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:56 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:39 am
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:35 am
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:07 am
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:15 am
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:49 am
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:44 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:52 pm
                                                            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:36 pm
                                                                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:40 pm
                                                                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:05 pm
                                                                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Robin Messemer Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:37 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Erin Dame Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:38 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:39 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:46 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:02 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better John Rebert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:59 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:49 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Aloisio Ponti Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:36 pm
      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Pang Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:24 pm
            Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:15 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Carl Langan Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:13 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:24 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ronald de Man Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:22 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:09 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:52 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Uri Blass Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Uri Blass Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:29 pm
                                          Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:59 pm
                                                Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ronald de Man Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:47 pm
                                                      Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:45 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ulysses P. Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:03 pm
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rasmus Althoff Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:21 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Ulysses P. Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:48 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:58 am
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:33 pm
                        Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:39 am
                              Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Michael Sherwin Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:15 pm
                                    Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better Rodolfo Leoni Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:29 pm
                  Re: AlphaGo Zero And AlphaZero, RomiChess done better szabo, robert Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:11 pm
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